WAR! What is it good for?

What has become obvious in recent times is that Gaza is basically one big concentration camp where the residents are reliant on Israels good will in allowing them food, water and fuel to survive.
You would think Israelis would know better.

 

There is an audibly growing clamour for a 'two state solution' meaning a sovereign 'Palestinian state' that incorporates East Jerusalem, Gaza and The West Bank ... Netanyahu's idea of Hell ... or perhaps, just karma for his indiscriminate disregard of civilian casualties in Gaza ...

 

Mate I'm getting tired of this. Every week you turn up and ask the same question, I give you the answer, then you turn up a week later claiming nobody's answered it and then ask me again. FFS. Either you're not interested in anyone else's opinion or you've got the worst case of amnesia since Ronald Raegan had a brain transplant

Now let me ask you a question.

For all the talk of Israel "having to respond".

For all the talk of civilian deaths being necessary?

My question is WHAT THE FCK FOR????

WHAT THE FCK IS ISRAEL KILLING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN FOR?

To do what??

We heard it was to eradicate Hamas. Bollox. No fcking chance... unless you want to kill close to a million people trying.

To rescue the hostages. Oh yeh that nugget. You killed 60+ in 7 weeks of your own airstrikes ffs. You rescued the same number in 5 days without a shot being fired

Hamas is basing itself among one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world. Yes lets say they're using them as human shields. They're culpible no doubt about it. But it's Israeli hands on those triggers and it does NOT absolve them of their guilt in knowingly firing through thousands of men, women and children to get to the criminals.

I'll leave you with this. When armed robbers are hold up in a bank with hostages. You don't blow the fcking bank up!

Oh and btw you should turn the telly on and watch the news. Northern Gaza is flattened. And those going back up north are families going to find their dead fathers, mothers, brothers lying in the rubble that was their homes. I can tell you that because I've just seen them showing exactly that.

You talk like a shill for the Israelis, completely 100% every piece of bullshit they come out with you repeat on here. Same excuses, same bullshit, and I'm done with it.

 

Oh and btw, the U.N. may be lots of things, namely corrupted by a security council with 5 permanent arseholes, and completely impotent because no one has the balls to do anything to stop the most powerful getting their way. But it's NOT the enemy here. No matter how much Israel wants to portray them to be, just because Israel chooses to flout every single U.N. law that's ever been passed against them. Israel has a habit of vilifying any organisation or individual that holds them to account. Every fcking time but it's no longer going to work and the world is sticking 2 fingers up.

Let's get this straight. FOR 3 FCKING YEARS Hamas were openly carrying out manouevres along the border with Israel. Not covert, actually in the open. War games. With mock lifesize tanks and kibbutz gates and everything. There's videos of them out there. They even had them on a TV programme in Israel a few weeks or months before the 7th October attack. Israel in its hubris thought they couldn't be touched and did nothing. But yeh it's the U.N.'s fault ffs.

 

lol see Covid for evidence

 

My ears pricked up when I heard the defensive machine was down at the very same time Hamas walked through the border

inside job and the justification for the reaction

https://actionabletruth.substack.com/p/oct-7-conspiracy/comments

 

in recent times ffs……anyway what is an Israeli and why should they know better after all the people who were given Israel by the cult members were also the ones behind adolf and his band of merry men rise to a super power

 

fk off are you done with it…..you love it

Same as I love proving I was right about the Covid hoax

 

The fact that this horrifies Netanyahu and the Zionists should be enough to tell the world where their prejudices lay.

It should be a fundamental right that Palestine is established as a bona fide state with East Jerusalem as its capital

It's obvious that this 'war' has never been about removing Hamas, that is a smokescreen for Israel, who under Netanhayu has sought to erode Palestine and further displace its people, and who has now gone all out to try and flatten and cripple the place.

I said at the beginning of this, that it was an attempt at ethnic cleansing, and that's exactly what we've seen.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just move Israel to Texas?

 

Lol, yeah I've though about this before too.

Seeing as Israel is full of European migrants anyway

Texas might be a bit hot though, somewhere like Missouri might be better

Plenty of right wing, ultra religious zealots there already, they'd fit right in.

 

Your viewpoint has indeed hardened.

It has been a pleasure debating with you and I have certainly appreciated seeing things from a different perspective. You have previously always written with politeness and respect but that seems to have changed over the course of the conflict. Why it has changed so drastically at this particular juncture when there is finally a glimmer of hope with a fragile truce is confusing to me, but at the same time I recognise that this is a deeply emotive subject that is likely to evoke a deeply emotional response.

So like I said, it has been nothing but a pleasure and we'll leave it here.

 

I wish this was true Diego but with respect, you speak from a position of conjecture and guesswork. Not a single military model of such a scenario ends with a lower casualty rate than what we've seen.

Second to this and perhaps more importantly is the fact that you seem to be suggesting Israel should conduct it's military campaigns unlike any other army in the history of modern warfare. One standard for the rest of the world, another for Israel? Israel has two duties that are it's primary responsibility: the protection of it's troops and civilians, and the removal of Hamas and its proxies. Third to these is the protection of the Palestinian people. This is how every army in the world goes about a campaign. Personal safety first, eliminate the enemy second, minimise civilian casualties third.

As I said earlier, the scale of Israel's response should have led to hundreds of thousands dead. It didn't because of the evacuation orders and continuous daily windows allowing relatively safe passage to relatively safer areas of the strip. Israel did this knowing the windows would be exploited by Hamas. It did it anyway in order to minimise civilian casualties. I find this admirable and, in the history of modern warfare, totally unprecedented to the best of my knowledge.

 

This is something I fundamentally support. Israel should not have control over basic amenities. Fuel should be overseen by a third party observer, but food and water are absolutely sacrosanct and I have often campaigned against the government's policy on those.

 

Incomplete information is not the same as misinformation. No one yet knows how many of the casualties were Hamas targets or how much Hamas infrastructure has been destroyed.

Once we do, it will be down to the conscience of each individual to answer that impossible question: was the ratio justified or not? If not, what should have been done differently to reach a point of justification?

What is clear to me is that this whole situation has been allowed to go on far too long without any real impetus for change. Israel cannot bear the blame for this alone. Nor can the Palestinians. The international community took it's collective eye off the ball almost two decades ago and there hasn't been a serious peace initiative since.

If and when the dust settles on this latest chapter, fundamental regional change is needed and urgently.

Hamas needs to be disbanded.

Netanyahu and his allies need to be permanently removed from politics.

Hizbollah's abduction of the Lebanese sovereign state needs to end.

Wider Iranian influence and goals of regional hegemony needs to be openly and confidently confronted and dealt with.

The Arab states need to up their game from empty rehtoric to actual proactive engagement with the situation.

The international community needs to stop pretending that an absence of war is the same thing as peace, and lead by example in finding a workable and lasting solution.

If most of these things don't happen, we will sadly be back to square one in a few years and I will shift my opinion on the matter quite significantly. At that point, to me, the civilian toll will become unacceptable.

 

let’s be honest here the Zionists don’t want peace they want the land for themselves and until that happens there will be no peace

 

I agree with you.

I was thinking before I saw your response, my concern was that Israel imho were trying to avoid any injuries or death within the IDF, to me that is a very big concern. Men that take to uniform know the score, you aint going out for a jolly in your tank. It is the responsibility of their commanders to ensure they secure a successful outcome in attack and minimise the risk, HOWEVER, that risk cannot be completely avoided, death is an inevitable consequence of declaring war against a foe. Killing thousands of innocent citizens such as young children is an absolute catastrophe and a man-made one. I've supported Israel throughout this conflict and still do, BUT I have to question the tactical methods they used - I couldn't give an acceptable rate of death among citizens other than say in any individual attacks, how many citizens died per ratio to Hamas fighters killed, and of these how many Israeli soldiers died in hand to hand combat? Lots of questions, lots and lots of them, and I'm not happy with the numbers I'm seeing, 700-900 amputations alone in one example from a doctor, humans have gone mad. I'd rather have camera footage of a gunfight in a hospital, at least then you could prove that Hamas were there and prepared to use it as a battle ground, and I'm sure no more deaths would have been caused, than chucking missiles in there. At least in Ukraine the soldiers had balls, very big balls compared to the peanut balls of Israeli troops.

 

Very much my way of thinking - yes, Israel has every right to protect its' citizens and to seek to bring the perpetrators of the events of October 7th to justice - BUT if at the outset Netanyahu had cited that a 'proportional response' could be 5 dead Palestinian kids for every Israeli killed, we'd all (I hope) have been appalled and said, no, not under any circumstances...

 

Zionist Israel is intent on expanding and with both sides of our government in the pockets of the puppeteers public opinions are worth jackshit(excuse the pun)

just saying the children in Palestine needs actions not hollow words

the sabbatean death cult has no empathy but 99 percent of the world’s population does shame we have to witness such sacrifices init

 

The answer to that question is no, and to be blunt, it's a million miles from an impossible question to answer. There is NO JUSTISIFICATION for the slaughter of nearly 15k civilians and destruction of homes, hospitals, schools, marketplaces and places of worship. NONE.

I know you will counter that with 'what were Israel supposed to do?' The answer again to that, is that THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE CREATED THE CONDITIONS THAT LED TO HAMAS gaining a foothold as a militant resistance group fighting against the Apartheid state that Israel has become.

There's no justification for what Hamas did on 7th Oct, but as Guterres said, this did not happen in a vacuum. It did not happen for no reason, it was a reaction to decades of persecution.

This did not start on 7th Oct as some want to frame it as.

As for the international community, yes they bear some responsibility for enabling, funding, arming and protecting Israel for their actions, but you cannot blame them for Israel's actions.

That buck stops with Israel.

They are the ones who have systematically encroached into Palestinian territory, who have enabled settlers to build homes and destroy Palestinian communities, have persecuted Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, have used military might to deny Palestinians their rights, have enacted an Apartheid state in Gaza, denying people any freedoms, have enforced a blockade of goods and services, have kidnapped and held without charge people for waving flags, children included, have murdered Journalists who criticise their regime, have shot and killed protesters when they speak up. They are the ones who have turned Gaza into an open prison and turned the inmates into freedom fighters/terrorists

And yet you ask whether Palestinians should bear some of the blame for the situation ??? What are they to do ? When they have tried the diplomatic route they are ignored, when they protest they are shot and killed, when they rise up and fight, they are labelled as terrorists.

There's no absolving Israel's responsibility for this situation in the fog of international ineptitude or Arab enabling of Hamas/ Hezbollah