VVD, Defence and overall shape

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Magic Ted

Magic Ted

Talulah
Sep 7, 2011
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Oslo, Norway
WARNING: Football thread

So,

Gary Neville begrudgingly pointed out a nice little stat about our defensive record..

Since we conceded 4 at Wembley against Tottenham, we have only conceded 21 goals in 32 games..

Now, that is a pretty drastic change in form from the time before under Klopp, a few things of course coincided with this:
  • Robertson claiming the LB slot
  • Arrival of VVD from Saints
  • Emergence of TAA
  • Karius replacing Mignolet in the first team
VVD arriving is obviously the big stand out one there and has become the leader which we were crying out for at the back, bringing a resurgence in Lovren alongside him who hit his best form in a red shirt and now Gomez too. With the arrival of Alisson, this is the first time under Klopp we have a back five that really picks itself when everyone is fit, there also seems to be a slight change of shape in midfield with two covering midfielders as opposed to a deep lying defensive midfielder which we've seen Henderson deployed as, of course our midfield three is always interchanging and fluid but to me there seems to be a clear emphasis on protecting the back four with two covering midfielders, as opposed to as I say, a DM and two high pressing AMs as we saw when Coutinho and Lallana were regulars.

Of course we're only two games in to the season but has Klopp found a defensive structure which suits our high press and still doesn't hinder utilizing our front three? And are we finally in a place where we can say we our no longer defensively frail?
 
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we still conceded on average 2 goals per game to top half last season.

My view is as follows

1. silly errors.

2. lack of communication.

3. positional sense.

4. pace.

5. panic.

6. kicking it wildly anywhere usually up in air.

those are the keys.

just playing Robertson not Moreno is worth 5 or 6 goals never mind how good he is.

Henderson at no 6 imo is not great as he positionally wanders forward too much.

vvd is calm and alisson is so laid back he is horizontal.

pace is key though.
 
Our defence has definitely improved. TAA got better. Removing Moreno removed a liability. Virgil has been fantastic and Lovren got better.

All that aside, I think mentality has been what has improved the most.

We could be two goals up, the opposition hit the woodwork once and all of a sudden the team would panic and make stupid mistake after stupid mistake. Lovren wouldn't mark his zone in a corner. The keeper would pass to their striker... Etc...etc.

We don't do that now. Conversing one goal doesn't send us into crisis mode like it once did.

12 months ago if we conceded one we would conceded two. I think the strong is mentally stronger now. Less likely to panic and more confident in their abilities. I'm sure having a competent defender like VvD helps that confidence.
 
Milk Zombie said:
Our defence has definitely improved. TAA got better. Removing Moreno removed a liability. Virgil has been fantastic and Lovren got better.

All that aside, I think mentality has been what has improved the most.

We could be two goals up, the opposition hit the woodwork once and all of a sudden the team would panic and make stupid mistake after stupid mistake. Lovren wouldn't mark his zone in a corner. The keeper would pass to their striker... Etc...etc.

We don't do that now. Conversing one goal doesn't send us into crisis mode like it once did.

12 months ago if we conceded one we would conceded two. I think the strong is mentally stronger now. Less likely to panic and more confident in their abilities. I'm sure having a competent defender like VvD helps that confidence.
Click to expand...

well we've not conceded a goal yet mind.. panic only.comes when you think you are not good enough to recover.

we will see.
 
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Don't agree about the midfield, we had no cover at all several times over yesterday.

I've also continuously pointed out how good our defence as been since VVD, Robbo & Karius/Alisson came in. Coutinho leaving meant our midfield became more robust too
 
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Zanjinho said:
Don't agree about the midfield, we had no cover at all several times over yesterday.

I've also continuously pointed out how good our defence as been since VVD, Robbo & Karius/Alisson came in. Coutinho leaving meant our midfield became more robust too
Click to expand...

klopp explained this as well.
 
A lot of people kept saying that we would always struggle to defend in klopps system.

The main issue with our defence was always the personnel.

I think some people still underestimate the impact that VVD has had. Not only is he class in his own right but he raised the bar for everyone else. Robbo has been very solid, Trent has done a good job and Lovren has improved (although he is still ****).

Kiev aside, Karius had a decent impact as well - helped the defence push a yards further up.

With Alisson in goal, Fabinho (one of the worlds best DM’s) yet to come in, and hopefully a new RCB to be bought, we’re almost complete.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
A lot of people kept saying that we would always struggle to defend in klopps system.

The main issue with our defence was always the personnel.

I think some people still underestimate the impact that VVD has had. Not only is he class in his own right but he raised the bar for everyone else. Robbo has been very solid, Trent has done a good job and Lovren has improved (although he is still ****).

Kiev aside, Karius had a decent impact as well - helped the defence push a yards further up.

With Alisson in goal, Fabinho (one of the worlds best DM’s) yet to come in, and hopefully a new RCB to be bought, we’re almost complete.
Click to expand...

Or gomez.

Sometimes the answer is right there.

You are not calling for taa to be replaced.

Let's see what gomez does when he gets targeted by a big centre forward.. frankly benteke didnt.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
Or gomez.

Sometimes the answer is right there.

You are not calling for taa to be replaced.

Let's see what gomez does when he gets targeted by a big centre forward.. frankly benteke didnt.
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I hope really hope so because I think Gomez has the tools to become a quality defender. I felt that the injuries really took its toll on him physically and mentally. Hope he’s proves me wrong - and he has based on the last two games. I agree that the ball over the top is a big concern.

But as we saw with Trent, give him game time and hopefully he will step up.

I would have loved another quality centre back but as long as VVD is there, then we’re ok.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I hope really hope so because I think Gomez has the tools to become a quality defender. I felt that the injuries really took its toll on him physically and mentally. Hope he’s proves me wrong - and he has based on the last two games. I agree that the ball over the top is a big concern.

But as we saw with Trent, give him game time and hopefully he will step up.

I would have loved another quality centre back but as long as VVD is there, then we’re ok.
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One thing Gomez has to learn is to trust the offside trap. This is also my biggest issue with Lovren. Rather than step out and catch the striker off, both Gomez and Lovren tend to run back thus playing the striker onside. That is where the panics starts.

Watch the chance Westham had with Arnautovic, VVD steps out Gomez steps back.
 
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Lamborini said:
One thing Gomez has to learn is to trust the offside trap. This is also my biggest issue with Lovren. Rather than step out and catch the striker off, both Gomez and Lovren tend to run back thus playing the striker onside. That is where the panics starts.

Watch the chance Westham had with Arnautovic, VVD steps out Gomez steps back.
Click to expand...

Yep and I’m hoping its down to inexperience. But with big Virgil by his side, I’m sure he’ll learn a lot.

Lovren won’t learn - he’s 28 I think. He’s just dumb and ****.
 
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