Match Day Thread versus Cardiff

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I've just had a read around,.....phew that was depressing......the players cannot take all the blame......the coaching just doesn't seem up to it.

Cleverley is looking more like Rooney MK2.....the players don't seem to know how to play under him.....or don't want to try to.....somethings got to change.....and we cannot wait until January.

We cannot claim to be a small fish in a big pond anymore.....we're actually one of the bigger fish in this pond.
 
Tom Cleverley certainly not making any excuses - two steps forward against Blackpool and three steps back today is the phrase that jumps out of it.

He mentions the impact of low confidence on the young players in particular who’ve yet to convince themselves they have a right to play at this level.

Also, breaks bad news at least to me - Xavier Amaechi requires surgery and will be out until Christmas. That’s very bad news as I think he’s probably the best signing we’ve made this summer.
 
Talking of referees, I’m just filling in a few minutes watching a recording of Middlesbrough v bottom team Sheffield United.

NB having come down from a higher division is no guarantee of success.

Finn Azaz now at Southampton of course but Whittaker looking good in a central No10 role.

But - a Sheffield United player has just gone airborne with an extended straight leg and caught an opponent on the shin. A real flashback to the 1970’s

He could have severed his leg never mind broken it but luckily did neither. Yellow card. What gane are they watching?
 
Only watch if you are of a strong disposition.

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Note particularly the number of times even in this short clip that the keeper parries the ball back into the 6 yard box. It HAS to go out toward the corner flag.
 
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What on earth were Argyle wearing at Cardiff....it was hard to tell on screen....was it white shirts and PINK shorts (or beige ?)....if so... what pratt decided that....so many strange decisions going on at the moment.....that beats the lot.......always need to be green somewhere in the kit.....I assume the TV decided against blue and green shirts clashing on screen.....money rules all decisions these days.
 
A tough day for your guys on Saturday.
We had the better of possession but no real chances in the first chances. No better than you. Took a worldy to get ahead (not the first for us this season to be fair) closely followed by a wicked deflection.
We have been controlling games and getting shots off so we'd expect one to go in on average.
Not sure what's happening at the back but we've not conceded a league goal from open play all season. We conceded a penalty in the first half of the first game, that's it. 5 clean sheets on the bounce.

A bit disappointed with cleverly's comments after the game. Suggested we had a team full of championship experience. Given we lost 14 players in the summer and had only recruited 2, that's hardly the case. Most of our players are academy graduates aged 23 or younger. There were 3 teenagers out against you.

Brian Barry-Murphy has done wonders with youngsters.

Its early days. We'll hit bumps in the road. Im sure you'll be fine.
 
ccfcremotesupport said:
A tough day for your guys on Saturday.
We had the better of possession but no real chances in the first chances. No better than you. Took a worldy to get ahead (not the first for us this season to be fair) closely followed by a wicked deflection.
We have been controlling games and getting shots off so we'd expect one to go in on average.
Not sure what's happening at the back but we've not conceded a league goal from open play all season. We conceded a penalty in the first half of the first game, that's it. 5 clean sheets on the bounce.

A bit disappointed with cleverly's comments after the game. Suggested we had a team full of championship experience. Given we lost 14 players in the summer and had only recruited 2, that's hardly the case. Most of our players are academy graduates aged 23 or younger. There were 3 teenagers out against you.

Brian Barry-Murphy has done wonders with youngsters.

Its early days. We'll hit bumps in the road. Im sure you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the honest assessment and bothering to come here and say it. Most appreciated.

We were well off the pace compared to our previous league game, there's no denying it. We've also had wholesale changes: only 3 of our starting 11 were at the club last year. It's taking a while to bed in.

These are Tom Cleverley's post-match remarks as reported by the club.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/cleverley-reacts-heavy-cardiff-defeat

The relevant bit is:

"But listen, I'm not saying the referee or, a little bit of luck on our side, was going to change the result today. We got beaten by a better team in terms of quality and a team who did the basics, in my opinion, better than us today."
 
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notDistantGreen said:
Thanks for the honest assessment and bothering to come here and say it. Most appreciated.

We were well off the pace compared to our previous league game, there's no denying it. We've also had wholesale changes: only 3 of our starting 11 were at the club last year. It's taking a while to bed in.

These are Tom Cleverley's post-match remarks as reported by the club.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/cleverley-reacts-heavy-cardiff-defeat

The relevant bit is:

"But listen, I'm not saying the referee or, a little bit of luck on our side, was going to change the result today. We got beaten by a better team in terms of quality and a team who did the basics, in my opinion, better than us today."
Click to expand...
Its interesting to see how relegated teams react.
We've been struggling for a few years. Turgid football. No identity, lurching from manager to manager, buying players that the next manager din't want. Wasted millions.
Whether by luck or judgement the board recruited Brian Barry-Murphy. A big reputation working with youngsters (Man City accademy) but few senior roles. Seems to have created a bit of a re-set at the club.
Our academy has been doing well, but no manager wanted to trust the youth, preferring to play journeymen.
BBM has turned that on its head. A few games ago, we had one player over 23 on the pitch and 3 teenagers in the back 4, which worried me a bit. Its why I think there will be bumps in the road for us. Those youngsters will have dips. Its the nature of learning.
Regarding identity, we often said there was a disconnect between the academy and 1st team (no director of football). Supporters on our message-board often thought we'd be better aligning the 1st team with the academy than the other way round. And that's what BBM has done. Inevitable I suppose given how many youngsters are in the team.

About 5 of the squad were regular 1st team players last year (not 1st choice, but more than just fringe players). Several were out on loan and the rest playing for the 21s (many being teenagers playing up a level). Against you, our CB was 19, RB 18, CM 20, RW 18. Other academy products all aged 23 played LB, CB and at 10.
In the midweek cup game, 13 of our squad came from our academy.

League 1 looks to be a tough league. The football seems a bit more rugged than the championship. Lots of teams established at this level and with recent championship experience. It will be a difficult league to get promoted from.


Here's the cleverly interview from the Cardiff website.

https://tv.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/videos/d4d349b8-179c-49c7-9c2c-54a8f71b43b1
 
We were bleating how many players we had lost and that is why we were struggling.....and we suggested that Cardiff had hit the ground running because they had lost so few and basically had the same team as came down.

Then we hear the truth from .....ccfcremotesupport....that Cardiff had lost 14 players and only brought in two new players for this season......but the youngsters had been the backbone of what was happening now......sounds to me that they have now got an organized management....plus being fortunate with developing their young players......we at the moment are in the early years of developing our next generation of players......which is what Simon Hallett has been aiming for.....in the meanwhile we have spent two years of getting the wrong manager's/senior coach's in to bring strong leadership that would help us get by until our youngsters became available.....so we are struggling because of poor recruitment.

Also we got into the transfer market literally from day one.....players being announced nearly every day.....but hold on a little bit......we had no manager/coach so who was deciding all these players would be ideal for whoever became our next manager/coach.....a possible disaster just waiting to happen.....amateur management just plucking straws out of the air and hoping that they get it right....surely any future manager/coach would back off from a situation that they had no say in.
 
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ccfcremotesupport said:
Its interesting to see how relegated teams react.
We've been struggling for a few years. Turgid football. No identity, lurching from manager to manager, buying players that the next manager din't want. Wasted millions.
Whether by luck or judgement the board recruited Brian Barry-Murphy. A big reputation working with youngsters (Man City accademy) but few senior roles. Seems to have created a bit of a re-set at the club.
Our academy has been doing well, but no manager wanted to trust the youth, preferring to play journeymen.
BBM has turned that on its head. A few games ago, we had one player over 23 on the pitch and 3 teenagers in the back 4, which worried me a bit. Its why I think there will be bumps in the road for us. Those youngsters will have dips. Its the nature of learning.
Regarding identity, we often said there was a disconnect between the academy and 1st team (no director of football). Supporters on our message-board often thought we'd be better aligning the 1st team with the academy than the other way round. And that's what BBM has done. Inevitable I suppose given how many youngsters are in the team.

About 5 of the squad were regular 1st team players last year (not 1st choice, but more than just fringe players). Several were out on loan and the rest playing for the 21s (many being teenagers playing up a level). Against you, our CB was 19, RB 18, CM 20, RW 18. Other academy products all aged 23 played LB, CB and at 10.
In the midweek cup game, 13 of our squad came from our academy.

League 1 looks to be a tough league. The football seems a bit more rugged than the championship. Lots of teams established at this level and with recent championship experience. It will be a difficult league to get promoted from.


Here's the cleverly interview from the Cardiff website.

https://tv.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/videos/d4d349b8-179c-49c7-9c2c-54a8f71b43b1
Click to expand...

I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying.

Traditionally, Argyle have had a pretty limited academy set up and when a good player emerged, he'd usually be whipped away by clubs higher up the chain. To give you an idea how poor it was, I played with a couple of lads at school who went on to sign for a professional club.... Southampton. Neither of them were ever approached by Argyle. It's true that was much longer ago than I'd care to admit but in essence, it hasn't changed enough.

There's now a big project (£21m?) going on to redevelop the area around Plymouth Albion's Brickfields rugby ground, funded in part by the Club, part by the Council etc. https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/brickfields-development-be-named-foulston-park

This has been accompanied by an extension of scouting and coaching activities across Devon and Cornwall. The idea is to achieve a rating of the academy which prevents the worst of this poaching.

So I think he's genuinely comparing where we are... which is a long way behind you in terms of bringing on your own academy players. And he's saying what you've done is what we want to do.

He says in his equivalent interview for Argyle TV how "inspired" he was to see what you'd achieved with home-grown talent.
 
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notDistantGreen said:
I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying.

Traditionally, Argyle have had a pretty limited academy set up and when a good player emerged, he'd usually be whipped away by clubs higher up the chain. To give you an idea how poor it was, I played with a couple of lads at school who went on to sign for a professional club.... Southampton. Neither of them were ever approached by Argyle. It's true that was much longer ago than I'd care to admit but in essence, it hasn't changed enough.

There's now a big project (£21m?) going on to redevelop the area around Plymouth Albion's Brickfields rugby ground, funded in part by the Club, part by the Council etc. https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/brickfields-development-be-named-foulston-park

This has been accompanied by an extension of scouting and coaching activities across Devon and Cornwall. The idea is to achieve a rating of the academy which prevents the worst of this poaching.

So I think he's genuinely comparing where we are... which is a long way behind you in terms of bringing on your own academy players. And he's saying what you've done is what we want to do.

He says in his equivalent interview for Argyle TV how "inspired" he was to see what you'd achieved with home-grown talent.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok. It was the 'team full of championship players' statement that stuck with me.
A few commentators have said similar which is annoying.
11 senior pros leaving and two and a youngster coming in suggests not.

Sam Hamam kick started our academy. His words were 'no youngster crosses the Severn bridge unless we don't want them'.
We've turned out decent youngsters since then, though most managers don't like playing them. Warnock was typical of that. He got us to the Premier league, but the football wasn't great and he didnt pick a youngster I don't think.
Ralls came through the academy but was late 20s when Warnock was there.

It does take a while for an academy to produce, but ours is in full flow now and a clear pathway to the 1st team can be seen. Lots of local lads in the squad are from the Rhondda, which is where I grew up. Only 12 miles or so north of Cardiff.
The Colwill brothers are from Caerphilly. Again, 8 or 10 miles. Ruben Colwill has been in and out of the Wales squad since he was 18 but never kicked on. Managers to blame as much as him, being played out of position most of the time. Too good to leave out but not trusted in the 10 role. At 23 he's suddenly hitting his straps, controlling games. Joel is 20 and had two loans last season, at Exeter and Cheltenham. He's put on a bit of timber and is looking a real handful as an 8.
It'll be interesting to see how the season pans out for both of us. We've only signed 3 players. Trott has been outstanding in goal. The other two are yet to play. Osho the CB signed the day before we played you. Yesterday we signed a Chelsea youngster on loan.

To be honest, Cleverly seemed quite down in his interview. Football management is a tough gig.

A week off with the international window for us. A bit of time for BBM and his staff to do some 1 on 1 stuff with whats left.
 
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ccfcremotesupport said:
Ah, ok. It was the 'team full of championship players' statement that stuck with me.
A few commentators have said similar which is annoying.
11 senior pros leaving and two and a youngster coming in suggests not.

Sam Hamam kick started our academy. His words were 'no youngster crosses the Severn bridge unless we don't want them'.
We've turned out decent youngsters since then, though most managers don't like playing them. Warnock was typical of that. He got us to the Premier league, but the football wasn't great and he didnt pick a youngster I don't think.
Ralls came through the academy but was late 20s when Warnock was there.

It does take a while for an academy to produce, but ours is in full flow now and a clear pathway to the 1st team can be seen. Lots of local lads in the squad are from the Rhondda, which is where I grew up. Only 12 miles or so north of Cardiff.
The Colwill brothers are from Caerphilly. Again, 8 or 10 miles. Ruben Colwill has been in and out of the Wales squad since he was 18 but never kicked on. Managers to blame as much as him, being played out of position most of the time. Too good to leave out but not trusted in the 10 role. At 23 he's suddenly hitting his straps, controlling games. Joel is 20 and had two loans last season, at Exeter and Cheltenham. He's put on a bit of timber and is looking a real handful as an 8.
It'll be interesting to see how the season pans out for both of us. We've only signed 3 players. Trott has been outstanding in goal. The other two are yet to play. Osho the CB signed the day before we played you. Yesterday we signed a Chelsea youngster on loan.

To be honest, Cleverly seemed quite down in his interview. Football management is a tough gig.

A week off with the international window for us. A bit of time for BBM and his staff to do some 1 on 1 stuff with whats left.
Click to expand...

I think we were all a bit depressed! We knew you were in good form but having beaten Blackpool, we hoped a corner had been turned and didn’t expect a 4-0 thrashing!
 
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