Veganism

[MadridTiger]

No I choose not to buy products that contributes to that. I buy from specific sections in supermarkets that are growing with a bigger variety of products every month. Meaning the market in that area is growing. If we all bought less meat, less meat would be produce it's simple supply and demand. Simply saying well that shop sells meat I'm not buying is a ridiculous premise. We change our habits the retailers do to. Maybe you should think about what you purchase a little more.

 

[HCAFC (Airlie Tiger)]

No I choose not to buy products that contributes to that. I buy from specific sections in supermarkets that are growing with a bigger variety of products every month. Meaning the market in that area is growing. If we all bought less meat, less meat would be produce it's simple supply and demand. Simply saying well that shop sells meat I'm not buying is a ridiculous premise. We change our habits the retailers do to. Maybe you should think about what you purchase a little more.

If you care passionately about animal welfare then just not buying meat simply isn't enough, especially when you continue to fund those that promote animal cruelty just because its convenient to you. You've done nothing to influence change, you've just eased you conscience a little. You're right, if people buy less then they will produce less, so apart from stopping yourself what else have you done to make others buy less meat?

You can't turn this on me either, I use a local greengrocer for veg and a local farm for meat and eggs, the environmental impact of my food consumption is almost certainly smaller than yours, if by your own account you shop at major supermarkets.

 

[Des Head]

Average life of an egg producing hen is a few years. Then slaughteted. Natural life span is 11 to 15 years so no financial benefit to keep alive. Average life span of male chick is ten seconds. Then it is thrown alive into a grinder to make a nutritious animal feed. All those lovely dairy products you consume are courtesy of depriving calves of same - they get a milk replacement concoction and are separated from their mothers. A field of young forlorn calves is a sight to behold while the calls of their mothers from the other side of the farm is loud and harrowing, but hey you need that yoghurt. Male calves have a life span of three months. This is to ensure that you can enjoy lovely white tender veal. All that is necessary is to cage the calf so that it cannot move for that period.

You're confusing the beef industry with the dairy industry, then sprinkling in some nonsense and anthropomorphism. It's a heady mix.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

If you care passionately about animal welfare then just not buying meat simply isn't enough, especially when you continue to fund those that promote animal cruelty just because its convenient to you.

You can't turn this on me either, I use a local greengrocer for veg and a local farm for meat and eggs, the environmental impact of my food consumption is almost certainly smaller than yours, if by your own account you shop at major supermarkets.

You make several points there, and I agree. Supermarkets have been the major cause of cost cutting in agriculture, which means diabolical conditions for animals and the heavier use of pesticides and herbicides. Furthermore, farmers have been urged to grow poorer varieties to cut production costs. Take peas for example. They grow tasteless varieties on which the pods all mature simultaneously and can be harvested by a machine in one go, rather than better tasting varieties on which the pods reach maturity over two weeks and need hand picking. Another example is cylindrical beetroot that can be sliced on a machine rather than better tasting globe varieties.

Potatoes are another problem. Supermarkets want to display produce as though it is a beauty contest, and if you see potatoes without blemished skins, you can be sure the ground they grew in was treated with something nasty. And why do we get potatoes from Egypt and Israel and Majorca in the spring? The environmental cost of their transport is high, and anyway, we will not be able to carry on like that in the long run. We should be producing more home grown potatoes and storing them properly. And why are we eating exotic produce as though it is normal?

My questions are though, where does your greengrocer get his supplies and your farmer his animal feed? Soya from the USA maybe?

 

[modnrock]

I dont worry about any of it. We eat meat the way we do because we can send men to the moon. We can mass produce it. Im sure we will evolve through necessity to do things differently ie artificial proteins etc. Til then each to their own. Impact on planet perhaps but we all ride or drive for pleasure and thats knowingly "wrong" If we didnt eat pigs you might be lucky to catch sight of one in a zoo...,

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

You're confusing the beef industry with the dairy industry, then sprinkling in some nonsense and anthropomorphism. It's a heady mix.

That's a bit like saying he confuses inhaling with exhaling; but they are of course both categories of breathing. There is no denying that the treatment of animals in industry is disgusting to many of us, though not all. I should have thought that what singles us out from those animals is our capacity to think things through, but just how so many of us arrive at different moral judgements is beyond me.

 

[Des Head]

That's a bit like saying he confuses inhaling with exhaling.

No. No it isn't.

 

[HCAFC (Airlie Tiger)]

The greengrocer tries to stock his shop from farms within a 60 mile radius, not always possible but I suppose its better importing the vast majority of it. The meat farmer is my uncle, its his hobby since he retired, he doesn't sell anything commercially, its entirely for himself, friends and family, the beef is grass fed and the chicken corn fed.

Animal welfare and the environment are not something I'm overly passionate about, I just find you get much higher quality food sourcing it from places like those than the supermarket. Obviously when you eat out you have little control over those things and I'm not adverse to using the supermarket every now and then if needs be.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

Til then each to their own. Impact on planet perhaps

It isn't just the planet. It is the fields all around you. Have you taken a walk in a ploughed field and looked at the stuff they call soil? It is DEAD. If you took a bucketful of it home and tired to grow a lettuce in it you'd get a shock. Nearly all the fields in England are in a terrible state, and they only produce by putting artificial nutrients in every year. Take away those NPK fertilizers and the farmer is done for. And what has this to do with veganism? Well, I can't understand vegans eating such industrial produce, including exotic stuff like soya.

If we lived sustainably there would be no British vegans because they'd soon die out.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

No. No it isn't.

'tis

 

[Des Head]

'tis

Fine. Horse racing is like a french restaurant, because they both involve horses.

 

[Ullofaman]

You're confusing the beef industry with the dairy industry, then sprinkling in some nonsense and anthropomorphism. It's a heady mix.

I am providing you with cold factual information - there is no confusion on my part. All animal farming is connected. What do you think happens to a dairy cow after five years of providing hormone-induced milk levels that their system can't cope with? - no, they don't go into retirement to live out their natural lifespan of twenty years swishing their tails on bucolic pastures and meadows - they are slaughtered for dog food and soups. Where is the anthropomorphic connotation in anything that I said? - to me a cow is a cow but I do empathize with the plight of sentient animals.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

Fine. Horse racing is like a french restaurant, because they both involve horses.

Herdsmanship has the object of looking after cattle. Whether it is for producing milk or meat for human consumption is irrelevant except in the details of how he treats the beasts. Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out. Phew.

 

[modnrock]

It isn't just the planet. It is the fields all around you. Have you taken a walk in a ploughed field and looked at the stuff they call soil? It is DEAD. If you took a bucketful of it home and tired to grow a lettuce in it you'd get a shock. Nearly all the fields in England are in a terrible state, and they only produce by putting artificial nutrients in every year. Take away those NPK fertilizers and the farmer is done for. And what has this to do with veganism? Well, I can't understand vegans eating such industrial produce, including exotic stuff like soya.

If we lived sustainably there would be no British vegans because they'd soon die out.

I agree entirely and im sure it will come to a head and we will have to do things differently. Myself im not averse to the odd veg curry. U make my own rhubarb jam, grow my own tomatoes, chillies, strawberries and blueberries. Ive a wood gas stove ive made and even this morning ive made coffee porridge, heated water to wash upand shave with. Im no tree hugger mind! Just like using a handful of twigs and saving cash. Get called weird at work but im saving and perhaps doing my environmental bit.,. Erm to offset the two stroke fumes ive thrashed around this morning...

 

[Des Head]

I am providing you with cold factual information - there is no confusion on my part. All animal farming is connected. What do you think happens to a dairy cow after five years of providing hormone-induced milk levels that their system can't cope with? - no, they don't go into retirement to live out their natural lifespan of twenty years swishing their tails on bucolic pastures and meadows - they are slaughtered for dog food and soups. Where is the anthropomorphic connotation in anything that I said? - to me a cow is a cow but I do empathize with the plight of sentient animals.

I'm a third generation herdsman in the beef industry. We had plenty of twenty year old cows. The only thing we take from male calves is their bollocks, no veal here. Veal is produced by preventing the calf eating anything other than milk which requires a muzzle, not a cage. (I don't agree with this by the way). When you wean a calf they pine for each other but primarily because the calf wants to suckle whenever it wants and the cow's udders swell and cause temporary discomfort. There are many problems with the beef industry, mostly due to callous ****s looking to make a quick buck but in this country, welfare is of the utmost importance. There's also issues with the sheer amount of methane, a greenhouse gas, they bang out but that's another story. I don't know a great deal about the dairy industry because that's outside my field of expertise. I love cows, they are my friends.

 

[Des Head]

Herdsmanship has the object of looking after cattle. Whether it is for producing milk or meat for human consumption is irrelevant except in the details of how he treats the beasts. Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out. Phew.

Cows are awesome and I looked after them very well.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

Cows are awesome and I looked after them very well.

I doubt many people on here have been close to a cow; but with your experience you'll know they are powerful beasts and can be dangerous. They are almost wild after a summer on pasture and hard to catch. How anyone can kill one to eat it is beyond me.

 

[ElTigre]

We plan to do to animal agriculture what the car did to the horse and buggy. Cultured meat will completely replace the status quo and make raising animals to eat them simply unthinkable.

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[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

The greengrocer tries to stock his shop from farms within a 60 mile radius, not always possible but I suppose its better importing the vast majority of it. The meat farmer is my uncle, its his hobby since he retired, he doesn't sell anything commercially, its entirely for himself, friends and family, the beef is grass fed and the chicken corn fed.

Animal welfare and the environment are not something I'm overly passionate about, I just find you get much higher quality food sourcing it from places like those than the supermarket. Obviously when you eat out you have little control over those things and I'm not adverse to using the supermarket every now and then if needs be.

I clicked like, but I didn't mean the supermarket bit. But I have to say I also buy some things in a supermarket. I'm not perfect either.

But I'd say the local sourcing of food is good in all respects, and if I went in for augury I'd predict it is what we have to expect. There! The future isn't so dim after all. And it will be even better the moment we get rid of all those machines and get people working in fields again, rather than sitting in some concrete and tarmac jungle twiddling their thumbs.

 

[Sikkedogsvendestykke]

We plan to do to animal agriculture what the car did to the horse and buggy. Cultured meat will completely replace the status quo and make raising animals to eat them simply unthinkable.

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I didn't watch the video, but Jesus, she's a peach!