Vdv

[The Huddlefro]

I was quite suprised we didn't see Defoe, and also that Sandro only came on in the 86th minute. Before Bale's second QPR were starting to gain the upper hand slightly and the introduction of Sandro could really have turned the tables as it did in the NLD earlier in the season. I don't think VdV would have had 90 mins if he was in the EL squad thats for sure.

 

[Ghoddle10]

VDv is way better than Defoe, so it's no contest, of course VDV should play, if that's the choice to be made.

Had we subbed VDV early in the second half the third goal doesn't happen, maybe another third goal might have happened, maybe not.

I have absolutely no interest in giving JD a chance at the expense of VDV, I prefer watching top class artists like VDV all day long. If JD needs a chance, then 'rest/drop' someone else, not that I could suggest anyone, but I'm not agitated about the situation in the first place. JD will surely get his chance on Thursday, just as he did the other week, and pretty poor he looked BTW.

Other chances, plenty of them will arrive through the season, but until a Prem game is comprehensively won, I don't want our top players 'rested' just to give someone else a go.

I thought Sandro should have come on earlier for Lennon,, but then Lennon plays a key role in the third goal. Harry likes his flair players, thank goodness, but it's a difficult balancing act.

 

[Chirpy rides again]

VDv is way better than Defoe, so it's no contest, of course VDV should play, if that's the choice to be made.

Had we subbed VDV early in the second half the third goal doesn't happen, maybe another third goal might have happened, maybe not.

I have absolutely no interest in giving JD a chance at the expense of VDV, I prefer watching top class artists like VDV all day long. If JD needs a chance, then 'rest/drop' someone else, not that I could suggest anyone, but I'm not agitated about the situation in the first place. JD will surely get his chance on Thursday, just as he did the other week, and pretty poor he looked BTW.

Other chances, plenty of them will arrive through the season, but until a Prem game is comprehensively won, I don't want our top players 'rested' just to give someone else a go.

I thought Sandro should have come on earlier for Lennon,, but then Lennon plays a key role in the third goal. Harry likes his flair players, thank goodness, but it's a difficult balancing act.

VDV is better than Defoe, accepted, but his appearance wouldn't have been "to give him a game" His pace would have pushed their back four back towards goal. You cannot keep a high line against him, especially when he is fresh after 70 minutes, when defenders are tiring. Nobody is saying he is better, but he IS different. I think if the scores had been level he would have been on.

As for sandro coming on for Lennon, that tells QPR that we're worried about them and are trying to shut up shop. They had their tails up before the third goal and we defended well. No need to give them further encouragement.

It's all about opinions, but I am sure we agree on the display. The passing yesterday was about the best I have seen from us. All round we looked pretty damn good.

 

[The Huddlefro]

As for sandro coming on for Lennon, that tells QPR that we're worried about them and are trying to shut up shop. They had their tails up before the third goal and we defended well. No need to give them further encouragement.

I guess so, but with Parker and Sandro in the middle I don't think any amount of 'encouragement' would have go them a second.

As you said, VdV is clearly a better player than Defoe, but Defoe does bring something different especially against a defence that's had to deal with Bale, Lennon and Adebayor all game. If he'd come on and got on the ball in or around the box then I would have backed him to score, even against Kenny who made some great saves to keep the scoreline reasonably respectable for QPR.

Whatever, we can't really argue with 3 points and a seriously promising performance that could (and should) easily have yielded more goals for us.

 

[Dier Hard]

Although Rafa is definitely one of the best players in the league at the moment, I don't quite understand the comparisons with him and Defoe. They're both completely different players, add to the fact they don't play in the same position. I could understand comparing Defoe to Ade, but not Rafa. Rafa, despite scoring many goals and having a better finish than most forwards around, is not a striker, he's an attacking midfielder and his link play doesn't get recognised much due to his goal scoring form, look at how he got Lennon involved both of Bale's goals, a striker in general would not have had that vision to spot and make the right pass. Rafa's form means we play 4-5-1 (plus Harry seems to like a 5 man midfield anyway). If Defoe was to play we'd more than likely play a 4-4-2 with Lennon being sacrificed and Rafa taking up the right hand role, though I think when Sandro is fully fit (and I've said this many times), we'll see him partner Scotty in the centre with Bale, Modric and Rafa playing behind Ade.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Although Rafa is definitely one of the best players in the league at the moment, I don't quite understand the comparisons with him and Defoe. They're both completely different players, add to the fact they don't play in the same position. I could understand comparing Defoe to Ade, but not Rafa. Rafa, despite scoring many goals and having a better finish than most forwards around, is not a striker, he's an attacking midfielder and his link play doesn't get recognised much due to his goal scoring form, look at how he got Lennon involved both of Bale's goals, a striker in general would not have had that vision to spot and make the right pass. Rafa's form means we play 4-5-1 (plus Harry seems to like a 5 man midfield anyway). If Defoe was to play we'd more than likely play a 4-4-2 with Lennon being sacrificed and Rafa taking up the right hand role, though I think when Sandro is fully fit (and I've said this many times), we'll see him partner Scotty in the centre with Bale, Modric and Rafa playing behind Ade.

Totally agree SoS but that means the only way we can fit in Defoe is to play an inflexible 442, omit two players who I think are better than him (Lennon and Sandro) and play VdV out of position......it's a no brainer that Defoe doesn't start and I can't even see a way of getting him game time via rotation because he doesn't fit at all well into my (and it seems your) preferred 4-2-3-1 (Pav is better than him as an Adebayor replacement imho). He's very good to have on the bench as an impact sub for when either plan A isn't working or we are three up already, though.

 

[Dier Hard]

Totally agree SoS but that means the only way we can fit in Defoe is to play an inflexible 442, omit two players who I think are better than him (Lennon and Sandro) and play VdV out of position......it's a no brainer that Defoe doesn't start and I can't even see a way of getting him game time via rotation because he doesn't fit at all well into my (and it seems your) preferred 4-2-3-1 (Pav is better than him as an Adebayor replacement imho). He's very good to have on the bench as an impact sub for when either plan A isn't working or we are three up already, though.

Agreed Power, apart from the Pav bit, I've never been a fan of his and personally can't wait 'til we sell him.
Like you say Defoe is great to have on the bench, whether he'd be happy with that I don't know but then it's down to him oust the player who IS playing in his position - Adebayor, until he does that, he'll be confined to the bench unless we get injuries (which with Spurs, is something you can guarantee!).

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Sounds fair.

 

[Patsbighands]

1605 FOOTBALL: Arsenal may have beaten Chelsea at the weekend but Tottenham forward Rafael Van der Vaart believes Spurs are in better shape. He said: "We are better than Arsenal. In our last seven games we have won six and drawn once. It's a long season, but I think we have a bigger and better squad."

Spot on VDV, he does seem a rather happy chappy at the moment long may it last.

 

[Ghoddle10]

VDV is better than Defoe, accepted, but his appearance wouldn't have been "to give him a game" His pace would have pushed their back four back towards goal. You cannot keep a high line against him, especially when he is fresh after 70 minutes, when defenders are tiring. Nobody is saying he is better, but he IS different. I think if the scores had been level he would have been on.

As for sandro coming on for Lennon, that tells QPR that we're worried about them and are trying to shut up shop. They had their tails up before the third goal and we defended well. No need to give them further encouragement.

It's all about opinions, but I am sure we agree on the display. The passing yesterday was about the best I have seen from us. All round we looked pretty damn good.

Hi Chirpy, we agree on the display for sure

I just don't like some of the negativity I pick up from some Spurs fans re VDV. Yes JD would have offered something different, but that difference might have been we only won 2-1 or even drew, as certainly we don't get the third that VDV was an integral part of. To me I was more concerned in getting Sandro on rather than Defoe, but Lennon (the obvious swap) was key to the third as well.

JD will surely get his chance on Thursday, let's see how he plays.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Spot on, Ensil.

There are several positions that we have this 'problem' in, in my opinion.
Those not currently starting should see the Europa League as an opportunity to force themselves into consideration.
I'm sure that Sandro will relish the chance to get back out there and put in a shift.
Some other players will show less enthusiasm and will deserve to be shipped out in January.

 

[Chirpy rides again]

Hi Chirpy, we agree on the display for sure

I just don't like some of the negativity I pick up from some Spurs fans re VDV. Yes JD would have offered something different, but that difference might have been we only won 2-1 or even drew, as certainly we don't get the third that VDV was an integral part of. To me I was more concerned in getting Sandro on rather than Defoe, but Lennon (the obvious swap) was key to the third as well.

JD will surely get his chance on Thursday, let's see how he plays.

We do seem to have an embarrassment of riches at the moment H10. I think folk only felt a little negative towards Rafa when he is stuck out on the right. He is patently not suited to it, but he is too good to leave out too.

He is undeniably the best we've had for many a moon and will, no doubt, become a legend for us if he sticks around. He seems to have dealt with his fitness niggles too.

I still fancy JD to take his chances and get 20 goals this season. He looks hungry.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Fair comments Chirpy, but as VDV said, he doesn't like playing on the right and being expected to track back. Then a lot of people criticised him for his correct comments, what he said was spot on, so even more irritation from me, at that negativity towards VDV's astuteness off the pitch as well as on it.

VDV will cover ground for a team, but he's not a disciplined defender, some people then actually had the nerve to say he shouldn't be in the team then.
Of course he should be in the team, he should be playing a position that suits him, and therefore the team. I don't mind if VDV nominally plays on the right, and I'm sure he doesn't, as long as he is allowed to influence the game where he can best influence it, in the opposition last third.

I still think the best answer is to play Sandro and Parker and drop Lennon, but fair play to Aaron, he did really well on Sunday, so deserves to start at Fulham. There must be a temptation for Harry though to keep Sandro off the plane to Russia and start him at Craven Cottage, will be fascinating to see.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think you'd be moving too many players out of their favoured positions, Ghoddle.
Sandro will get plenty of games.
He's been out for a while, so I'm sure that he understands that he needs to earn his place back.

 

[notsosmartspur]

and also that Sandro only came on in the 86th minute. Before Bale's second QPR were starting to gain the upper hand slightly and the introduction of Sandro could really have turned the tables as it did in the NLD earlier in the season.

But he didn't, because as widely reported afterwards, we stepped it up a gear, and we scored the 3rd without him, plus, Scott Parker was busy getting the MoM award, you do not take a player off who's playing that well. And if not Parker then just who else in MF are you suggesting should have gone off? You mention VdV in your post, but I would assume you're surely not suggesting a forward for a holding Mf'er at that stage of the game. He was involved in all 3 goals, what more do people want.

 

[The Huddlefro]

But he didn't, because as widely reported afterwards, we stepped it up a gear, and we scored the 3rd without him, plus, Scott Parker was busy getting the MoM award, you do not take a player off who's playing that well. And if not Parker then just who else in MF are you suggesting should have gone off?

No I would have taken Lennon (who was nowhere near his best) off and moved Modric out to wide right if I was going to change the system. That said I might have not even made the substitution in the first place, in my post I was only suggesting what a different course of events might have been if Harry had chosen to do that substitution.

You mention VdV in your post, but I would assume you're surely not suggesting a forward for a holding Mf'er at that stage of the game. He was involved in all 3 goals, what more do people want.

Again no, I never criticised VdV in the post, it's just that Harry hasn't seemed to play him for the full 90 so far this season for whatever reason but he chose to this time. It merely suprised me that what has usually happened this season didn't happen on Sunday, but the decision to play him for the full game clearly paid off. You'll hear no complaints from me about his performance yesterday. As I said earlier I am only trying to suggest what might have happened differently regarding substitutes, not what I would actually have done. It was in no way an attack on Redknapp or VdV as the choice to play VdV for the full 90 turned out to be the correct one

 

[NSIS]

When he first arrived, VDV took off like a rocket - had a massive effect on the team, as a whole. The, he tailed off, looked unfit, not sure of what his job was, etc. I don't think, at that stage, that Harry was clear in his own mind on how best to deploy him, either. The problem, until Adebayor arrived, was that nobody was holding the ball up in attack. VDV seems to be at his best playing off someone like Ade who controls it, holds it up, and waits for a player like VDV to play off him. Also, obviously, the longer you play with a team, the more you get to know the talents, habits, etc, of your teamates - and can thus anticipate where they will be on the pitch in almost any given situation. In other words, not only do we have a better style of play, now - more suited to his obvious talents, but he is now part of the team. He has become integrated, looks far happier & settled. I just hope he stays fit.

 

[notsosmartspur]

superpav - I think the case for substitutions yesterday was 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Some people are making something out of QPR having 15/20 mins of the game, most of the time any PL team are going to have that, I don't think its possible for any team to be able to control a game for 90mins, not in this league anyway.

 

[Ghoddle10]

I think you'd be moving too many players out of their favoured positions, Ghoddle.
Sandro will get plenty of games.
He's been out for a while, so I'm sure that he understands that he needs to earn his place back.

I know you do PNP, but I don't agree as we've been over before To me Spurs can play a loose 2-3-1 with VDV, Modric and Bale doing their main damage in the oppo 3rd. Bale and Modric having better engines can track back as and when, but it's Sandro and Parker who 'put out the fires' predominantly.

I'm sure Sandro does understand the need to earn his place back, and while it wouldn't amaze me if it happens at Fulham, I can perfectly see why Harry may well go for the same starting XI. I just think we're too open at set pieces, and much as I like Aaron, I prefer Sandro, if fit.

 

[notsosmartspur]

My final point on VdV is that he's worked with some top managers that left the media with a 'whats his best position' tag. He arrived here with 'if Mourinho can't get the best out of him he must be a problem'. Well Harry has found it, and his fitness is better so far, he also did 90 for Holland recently.