I agree with the removal of the word deliberate. That's one thing that had to go.
VAR...
- Thread starter Libby
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I thought we wanted consistency? You seem to want your cake, while eating it...
Little finger of the left hand?..or what about only if it hits the hand
Actually, ignore it all together. As long as you don't catch it, it is fair game
One thing this discussion shows is that it’s not simple and going to be difficult for referees. The law makers have screwed them over and it’s going to be a nightmare.
If goalkeepers are allowed to punch it, then why not outfield players?
It's clearer than it was to be fair and we've got var now so all the time in the world.
Think part of the problem is trying to take two scenarios of handball and put them into one neat rule.
“Deliberate” makes perfect sense and should stop penalties for when a ball is blasted at a player from a couple of yards away.
The reason for this natural position rabbit hole we’re heading down is defenders taking a calculated risk when blocking shots, using their arms to make their block bigger. If it hits the arm “accidental ref!” (sorry for stating obvious stuff, but wanted to show the reason for my point, which I will finally get too)
For me the rule should be a little less binary and be in two stages to almost guide the refs in their thought process.
Deliberate Yes/No
Yes - Pen
No - did the handball prevent a goalscoring opportunity and did the defender leave arms in natural position?
My example is poorly worded, but I think a few more rules should be written in this logic flow kind of way. Might help with the consistency
“Deliberate” makes perfect sense and should stop penalties for when a ball is blasted at a player from a couple of yards away.
The reason for this natural position rabbit hole we’re heading down is defenders taking a calculated risk when blocking shots, using their arms to make their block bigger. If it hits the arm “accidental ref!” (sorry for stating obvious stuff, but wanted to show the reason for my point, which I will finally get too)
For me the rule should be a little less binary and be in two stages to almost guide the refs in their thought process.
Deliberate Yes/No
Yes - Pen
No - did the handball prevent a goalscoring opportunity and did the defender leave arms in natural position?
My example is poorly worded, but I think a few more rules should be written in this logic flow kind of way. Might help with the consistency
That is exactly how it should work. The flow as you say should be:
------------DELIBERATE-----------
....................|.......................
....YES--------------------NO
.......|.............................|
...PEN...............Unnatural Position
....................................|
..........................YES--------NO
.............................|...............|
..........................PEN........NO PEN
Simple as @saintlyhero says
That's how the human brain works (although much faster than us reading it ). A good experienced ref who has a clear view should be able to judge that in a split second....though most pause for their conscious thoughts to catch up with their unconscious ones.
). A good experienced ref who has a clear view should be able to judge that in a split second....though most pause for their conscious thoughts to catch up with their unconscious ones.
Who decides what an unnatural position is? It is different if you are stood square on, stood side on, or jumping.
And what if the ball hits an arm when someone is running, with his arms pumping back and forth, widening the body shape?
Should have VAR screens everywhere and the whole crowd gets a vote, like ask the audience on who wants to be a millionaire.
That is already how it works at Old Trafford....
Both comments!