One of them is offside......I think........hang on.........
VAR cannot be fixed
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Going with you here for a moment what specifically would you do that would improve matters? Not meant to sound aggressive, it's just that "can be improved" seems vague.
Vin
You were right to say before that decisions are subjective. Sometimes it's easier to be subjective to see something from a few angles and have a minute rather than seconds to make that decision.
I would change now
1. Offside, stop the lines and graphs that take minutes, replace with a replay at normal speed, if you can't see its offside from that give benefit to striker.
2. Penalty. Foul in the box, ref to use pitchside monitor. Not for var to back what ever ref first judged. Referee, who should be in charge check his own decision.
3.. Penalty, handball in the box. As above, referee to take another look and make decision *
*The handball rule really needs looking at, that is more of a problem than var along with the interfering with play on offsides.
The referee on the pitch should still be the one in charge but there is a massive improvement needed from them to get what we all want week in, week out which is consistency. It can't be that some clubs like Man Utd get penalties week after week and teams like us hardly ever get given, it's so bad it's embarrassing. At the moment var officials seem scared to overturn the onfield decision, let them review their own decision.
If only they had taken the Fats Philosophy and just given it six games....
VAR was brought in because wenger et al spent the whole post match interview, every week, criticising the referees. So now nobody argues and we all accept the decisions.
MOTD have a special 5 minute section every week where they talk about things other than terrible VAR decisions.
It's sensationalist to say that Bournemouth were relegated because of VAR. They were relegated because over 38 games they were one of the three worst teams in the league. I'm sure they had favourable decisions go there way sometimes too. Also, wasn't that a hawkeye malfunction, rather than a VAR one?
Similarly, we are all feeling extremely pissed off at the moment because Saints have become so sh*t after such a promising first half of the season, but it isn't VAR's fault. Sure VAR has 'robbed' us of a point or two maybe, but again, I bet we could find some decisions that went our way at some point earlier this season too (Brighton away springs to mind).
I'm with the drop-a-bollock brigade. I don't think VAR should be making the decisions, but rather reacting to outrageous and obvious errors. Basically, the video footage should be available, but without a seperate ref watching it (essentially take the -AR aspect out of VAR). Then, if each team had their one opportunity per game to ask for it (a la cricket), the pitchside monitor could be used to help try and fix the situation.
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garysfc
Well-Known Member
And to me, that’s where Var comes into play. Var should only be used on clear & obvious errors. If you need to draw lines, you don’t use Var & AR decision stands. Sunday’s handballs, unfortunately & I can’t believe I’m saying this, Bertie’s is handball but so was the Wolves one. Ok, some will argue it’s still an opinion but let’s just use some proper refereeing logic in the camera room, to help the the on-field Ref & correct C&O mistakes.
I'd argue it's sensationalist to say that decision at Wembley cost us the cup (Not saying you've said that but plenty have), and the PL literally came out and said VAR should have given the goal that Hawkeye missed, so yeah, it was a VAR failure too.
You've kind of missed the point too; it's not about whether it goes for or against us, it's **** for everyone and nothing has really changed in that some decisions go for you and some go against you.
Though actually I do kinda take your point. Some of our fans have deserved these recent poor decisions as they didn't care about them last season when affecting other teams.
I'm the opposite to you btw ref the screens. I think if you're only using for blatantly wrong decisions then they're not needed, as it's immediately obvious from a first replay and it's a waste of time to send the ref over.
The big point is though, that it's all still down to opinion so there'll still be plenty of decisions you disagree with.
If that cash handball had happened 2 seasons ago people would have been telling me on here that it was why we needed VAR, and yet the official didn't think it was a pen.
garysfc
Well-Known Member
#1; agree
#2; Bednarek @ MU!?
#3; Sunday? I’ve no confidence Scott would have changed his mind ala Dean above #2.
We definitely need Refs who are open to saying “I got it wrong”. I might be doing Scott a disservice on #3 but Dean vs Bednarek is such a case point. He gave the pen/red card. Martial said it wasn’t (not sure for one or both?); Dean was advised to look at TV; stood by both actions. Red later rescinded. What a farce.
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I think what would make it exciting is if we kept VAR but each team gets to decide a 10 minute period where there is no VAR and their manager and two fans are the ref and running the line for that 10 minute period.
Oh and rush goalie.
Oh and maybe remove the goalposts and use jumpers.
Yep I'm pretty done with it all and have absolutely nothing useful to say.
Oh and rush goalie.
Oh and maybe remove the goalposts and use jumpers.
Yep I'm pretty done with it all and have absolutely nothing useful to say.
1. Here's a radical thought. Why don't we pay to have a man running along the touchline watching at full speed? He could maybe have a flag that he raises if he thinks it's offside, while giving the benefit of the doubt to the striker.
2. It'll still be subjective. Fans will think they've been robbed.
3. Ditto. If the penalty had not been awarded, Wolves fans would have been baying for blood as, in their opinion it was quite clearly a handball.
I'm also too much of a student of human nature to expect referees to overturn their own decisions. There are too many cognitive biases that lead you to support decisions you've already made. It's even worse if you've announced a decision (that's why they tell you to inform others that you've given up smoking - it's tougher to go back on something you've made public). Add in the fact that a changed decision makes it look like you can't judge in real time and I wouldn't hold out hope for many revocations of decisions.
If you really want better decisions, there's a wealth of evidence to show that referees wearing headphones playing white noise make far better decisions than referees who can hear the crowd. That's a technology I'd support.
Vin
Then do something about it. Instead of just patronising your fellow Saints fans, actually do something.
Give up your season ticket, protest outside Stockley Park, get a twitter campaign going, design a banner for your first game back at St. Mary’s, turn your back on the game for the first five minutes, wear black, anything.
Much, much more sensationalist to attribute the result of 38 games’ endeavor down to a single event, than a single game.
The fact is, a game of football has a lot of contentious moments. Referees prior to VAR were not coping at all well. They needed help.
Now they are getting too much help.
So, the answer is somewhere between these two.
I have a different opinion and I dared to make a joke about it so I'm patronising you. Nice ad hominem.
I have already given up my season ticket. I've already told Saints why. I'm sorry that I'm not bothered or have time enough to start some kind of mass campaign but you'll just have to live with being patronised.
Vin
I mean I can see where the OP is coming from, because the NFL uses video referees when making decisions all the time but don't tell me it does not lead to controversy, accusations of bias and anger. Anyone who follows any NFL-related social media for a few weeks during the season would no doubt agree with me.
Though the offside rule should be changed so offside isn't a decision over a matter of millimeters.
Though the offside rule should be changed so offside isn't a decision over a matter of millimeters.
But NFL has long pauses of non-playing time in which to use video technology. The main gripe with VAR in football is that it causes too many stoppages.
Exactly. It was a joke aimed at someone who I know has an actual sense of humour, you condescending prick.