Match Day Thread V Swansea City

Swansea broke through our lines at will in the second half and that's without us pressing upfield. I don't think Rafa has a lot of confidence in us playing a pressing game and to be fair, nor do I.

 

Fair enough but then we look at points against West Ham and Stoke as gained points surely and should factor them in. I dont think he's impervious to criticism, but it seems like when a result doesn't go our way we're all professional football managers and he's clueless. All I'm saying is look at the table and breathe for now.
Some can argue others wouldn't be afforded so much slack from a section of fans, but it's probably because to me he represents a potential we never had under any manager since Keegan's return (poor Hughton was like a dead man walking from the season's start)
But regardless it feels a moot point as this is definitely the worst team we've ever had in the Prem and we're still abover tge relegation spots and showing more fight than when we had the likes of Viduka and other overpaid ****e in our team.

 

We saw the difference between the same side under a manager like McLaren and Rafa. If Rafa had had the talent that Pardew had he'd certainly (to my mind) achieve more with it. The game plan was sufficient to win the game and I find it difficult to say it was the manager's fault we didn't win when his forwards cannot hit a barn door between them.

I can imagine if you are sitting there in freezing weather every weekend it must be doubly frustrating however. Just remember Rafa has a short blanket!

 

A lot are slagging off Ritchie but the lad is like a Yorkie Terrier snapping at people’s heels. He gave Swansea no room.

 

To be fair to Rafa (and I'm one of the harsher critics) from what I saw and heard of the game its a lack of quality up top this weekend as opposed to Brighton where he got the tactics horrendously wrong. Created enough chances to win the game before half time yet go behind at the beginning of the second half which knocks the confidence. Luckily Joselu scuffed his shot into the bottom corner not long after but having dominated the first half and not taken any chances shows we need a striker capable at this level (and one who doesn't rub Rafa up the wrong way) when you look at the front "4" in a 4-2-3-1:

Gayle - Championship
Joselu - Championship
Mitro - lower/mid table EPL
Ritchie - Championship
Atsu - Championship
Murphy - Top Champ/Lower EPL
Perez - Lower/mid table EPL
Aarons - Championship
Diame - Top Champ/Lower EPL

 

Are you suggesting that generally there is some thought to his substitutions in game? I honestly don't know who you've been been watching this season mate if so. We do the same thing at the same time generally in every game unless there is an injury. Some of the substitutions just seem to have no thought of how it might impact the game. There is absolutely no way on earth the Joselu sub was anything than other than pot luck. You only have to look at our substitution timing over the course of the season. Or simply look at the last two games

Swansea - 64, 82
Stoke - 64, 82, 90

I certainly don't expect some swashbuckling style. I do expect the semblance of a plan, even if it involves being tight. We have one away. We're ****ing clueless at home. Our recent home record reads LLLLLDD. We last won a game there on the 21st October. Our opposition have been Swansea, Brighton, Man C, Everton, Leicester, Watford, Bournemouth. Realistically from those available 21 points, you'd expect a minimum of 10 points really being conservative. To be honest I'd hope for more but the league is unpredictable. To simply look at the table and say "ah we're 15th though and 4 points off 9th" is folly for me. Your home record generally keeps you up when you are bottom feeders like ourselves. 2 from 21 points is a massive problem.

Quite simply Rafa needs to get his finger out in the build up to the home games and stop sitting on his fat arse during games watching points slip away. I expected a relegation battle. I didn't expect our manager to be seemingly inviting one when our away form has been good enough to see us well clear of trouble.

 

I think the thing is, he's normally so good and consistent when he has a slightly "off" game it really stands out. The off bit was more going forward than any pressing or workrate issues based on what I saw of the game

If we had 3 of 4 more players with the same drive and attitude it wouldn't be so noticeable when he isn't fully at it

 

Saying that I can criticise the subs in that myself and everyone else watching would have had Murphy on. I can't criticise the timing of the subs too much though and I trust that Rafa has good reasons for what he does.

 

I do agree to a certain extent, and it is frustrating watching us at home. It is certainly not all Rafa's fault. I just think its madness after 2 points from 7 home games to pretend its all down to transfers, finishing etc. We need to address some things rather than just crossing fingers.

What worries me is that Rafa we got at the end of the season we got relegated has disappeared completely. That clear plan which seemed to get us a bit of luck and goals at home has gone. You get lucky when your planning is good and you are organised. Its amazing how lucky you are when you work hard - both on the day and in the week leading up to it. I think Rafa needs to take the shackles off his stupid substitution regime too. I think he needs to drill them better on how we are going to create opportunities. I'm sure if he does he can turn round this horrific home form.

 

Okay so what managers make substitutions earlier? I heard some bemoaning him not making changes at half time, but who does? So when the subs come off its pot luck, when they don't it's his ineptitude? How do you win with that one?

The home form sucks but I maintain that the crowd is having an effect on a pretty fragile set of players, which is nothing new amd has been apparent for years now. To be honest though as long as we stay up I really couldn't give a **** whether we get the points at home or on our travels. I know you'll disagree but we dont have the players to play attacking football, or push up whatever, home or away.

So basically Rafa needs to pull his finger out so we can be top 10, this is why you're unhappy? If its because your fed up of **** performances at home then that's understandable but if the end goal is survival, regardless of how it happens, then how can it be part of said argument? You cant exactly say home forms pivotal when we are above other teams 24 games in with our ****test record in years

 

Joselu nutmegged two players with one shot, he's the new ronaldo

 

TBH I genuinely thought it was a great strike when I first saw it on MOTD last night but luckily the reverse angle confirmed he caught it with his ankle as opposed to his laces/side of the foot We'll take them however they go in though but just to clarify he's had a tap in, one that was kicked in off him vs Liverpool and a scuffed shot that's megged two players thus far.

So if we are talking about the old, fat, coke head, tranny shagging, Brazilian Ronald and comparing as of today's ability then yes he is the new (old) Ronaldo!

 

Nobody will argue with that! Tell you what mate, as much as he pissed me off when he was here, I wish we still had Papiss right now! Hit everything asif he was taking a goal kick and still had a better goals ratio than our strikeforce

 

Its pot luck. There is a very good analogy which rings true in this circumstance. If you throw enough **** at the wall some of it will stick. There is no method to his substitutions and there is no clear method to our play at home. We don't even need to use other teams to work this out. We only have to look at our own away form which has been good and has a very clear methodology. I don't even understand why he does what he does with subs, surely he understands how subs can impact a game. I'm not sure why he continually wastes this tool he has available to him. As I keep saying and you keep ignoring, I'm not interested in playing attacking football at home. I'm interested in us having been coached well enough to pick up points at home. Currently our manager and his team are failing to do that.

He deserves criticism for our home form, its ****ing rank, as are the performances and methodology (or lack of it). Yes I am fed up with our home form. It doesn't end there though. I have seen enough football to know that our away form won't be as good all season. That is normal. So if our home form doesn't improve, its pretty easy to draw conclusions what will happen. That is concerning but more than anything else a bit frustrating. It is in no way the fans fault, that is lazy excuse. Rafa and the team have given the fans **** all at home. It is always a two way street. It can be tricky here but that is when a good manager comes to the fore.The fans have tried, I have been there like probably yourself and many others so I know. However the performances are so devoid of method, its just a stop start mess. I'm not sure where else to lay the majority of the blame for that other than the manager? Its kinda of his job.

We have done the hard work away and the manager has played a big part in that. 100%. Yet we find ourselves no better off because of our dismal home form, and the manager has played a big part in that too. To suggest otherwise is nonsense to me. Where have I said Rafa needs to pull his finger out and get us top 10? I haven't because I don't expect top 10. Although it is perfectly reasonable to think we could have been had he not got it so royally wrong at home. Everton are 9th with 4 points more. So even if we had taken a miserly 5 additional points to the 2 points we got from a possible 21 over the last 7 home games, we would be 9th. And I think this is the point you are missing. He needs to get his finger out and perform at home. Otherwise he will end up chasing his tail when the away form inevitably runs dry.

Simple question really - if our home carries on, can you see us staying up? We would pick up 9 points from our remaining home games going on current form. So we'd need another 9 points from our remaining 7 away games to be sure based on current form. My concern with that would be that of our remaining 7 away games, we have Liverpool, Leicester, Man C, Spurs, Everton who I think we would all admit are very good home sides. I'd imagine Bournemouth and Palace's home form has been largely behind the points they've got now too. I can see pretty big flaws in the theory it doesn't matter where you get your points to be honest. Unless he sorts his **** out, I think we will be back in the division below.

 

Loved Papiss, although yeah sometimes you wondered if he ever did do shooting practice! Some of the goals he scored e.g. vs Chelsea from the touchline you couldn't have pulled off no matter how much practice you put in but I guess that comes down to being a natural finisher? Something severely lacking at the club currently.

Agree with this statements though, I think Rafa's subs are generally too slow and with players coming on for 8 mins how are you meant to effect a game in that length of time? I don't agree with the team selections either but that's a different matter. 55-70/75 mins are the times for subs, maybe hold one back to waste time later on but give the lads coming on a chance to get into the game at least.

The lack of plan at home is also apparent, unfortunately away from home we can sit in and counter but at home we need something else as what we are trying atm is not working. Maybe swap the AM for a DM and leave the wingers and striker higher up the pitch to pin the opposition back four to the halfway line? Think we will do better vs the "big" teams who come to attack - 2nd loss in a row for City this weekend

Again agree, as someone said eariler, SJP is a hard place to play with the fans for BOTH teams. We are either bouncing or booing - no in-between, the murmurs when Joselu came on were.....lets say interesting. Murphy again is another I'd point out, remember he came on for his 4/5th appearance off the bench, let the ball run over his foot and out of play and the fans were not appreciative of that and certainly let him know and for a young lad he's done well to pick himself up and go again after - he'd be starting games for me at present.

Also don't like him saying Mitro is injured when its quite clear he just doesn't rate him. Honesty is the biggest trait I look for in any relationship be it personal or professionally and I'm a staunch believer that any dishonesty should be dealt with by public flogging, a day in the stocks or lashes with a whip!

 

I will say one thing about Rafa- Once he takes a decision on a player that is it. He is too ****ing stubborn. He also lacks man-management skills - Ask Steven Gerrard or Cristiano Ronaldo. Instead of saying Mitro is injured, just say how it is. He doesn't rate him because he doesn't fit into his crappy system. Mitro likes to get the ball and play it to others. Upsets Rafa's precious borefest system.

 

Arguable, if we maintained a level of form away we would inevitably stay up so it goes back to that any means necessary category. We could just as easily have picked up points against Everton and a few others if our players could finish when we are having the attacks, I'll take it as a game by game basis.
And is it balls a lazy excuse, ya fans boo ya for drawing 0-0 with Brighton, they all start great and 20 minutes in you can feel the absolute change. I dont blame them after the ****e put up with over the years at all, but it is a big factor. I notice when we were on our losing run, that away crowd picked those players up. That isnt happening as easily at SPJ and hasn't for a while.

Well to be honest I thought you must be alluding to attacking, what were our other managers' clear methodologies though? Keegan and Robson had one I guess, but they were working with better money comparatively and 10x better teams. To me all the **** he's setting out would be working a lot more with a competent striker. We're 8th on shots averaged per game in the league and ahead of Bournemouth, Brighton etc. etc. but also 7th on shots on target, whilst our defence is undeniably better than most prem seasons. You say he needs to find some clear plan but it's pretty clear the plan is to keep it tight and score goals, we just need a natural finisher.
You say a plan creates its own luck but im not sure what else we can do, maybe take less shots and defend less and call it a clear plan.
Well fair enough you didn't, but you've even said your annoyance at the home form is we could be even higher. Not a problem, but personally Im okay with things overall right now

 

Rafa had a clear methodology himself when we were picking up points in his first 10 games. Pardew had a clear methodology also. Not always successful mind, but at least you could see what the patterns of play were. You could see what the general idea was, and the tweak for any given game. Keegan had a clear methodology with wingers, however simplistic it was. Bobby obviously had very clear tactics, largely based around a balance of youthful energy and quality. Fat Sam had a very clear massively flawed tactical policy (humping 60 yd balls to Martins and Owen was stupid).

I genuinely have sat this season several times thinking "what the **** is the game plan here?!". There are no diversionary tactics with players taking players away to create space, no set ways of working the ball into wide areas. Balls are played behind people all the time. We are just not in sync.

We have one tactic away but its a smart one. We know Rafa can do it. He has come up with plenty tactical plans throughout his career. I think his lack of inventiveness and inability to rely on intuition within a pattern of play and structure is a problem with us of course, because he used to relying on better players. I can accept that. We know the type of coach he is, he likes things done rigidly and has always been a defensive coach. There is nothing wrong with that. What my concern stems from is the sheer nothingness I'm currently watching at home. Its very amateurish at times.

The fans start great you're right, they get behind the team, but they are left confused by the tactics (if there are any). I think if it was one game the fans would think, ok fair enough. However this has gone on far too long now, the fans are restless. The manager and his coaching staff are well paid to come up with a plan. Fans sat there aren't stupid. They know their football, and they can spot a team which is not well drilled.

I'm not interested in the shots ratio etc - its all misleading. Saturday we created some chances but generally we haven't. We've had shots but because we don't have clear patterns of play and ways of working teams out of position, we don't get those chances that lead to goals. Even if I wanted to defend him for the lack of a finisher, why hasn't he tried Mitrovic whether he likes him or not. Surely he is not pig headed enough to hinder the team at the expense of his own preferences? I'm not sure Mitrovic would fair that much better though, because our play is poor.

Its almost like you're saying he needs a superb finisher to just bail him out? There are managers who play without a striker and still score goals because they have tactics. Honestly can anyone say what our patterns of play, aim of our game is at home, what we are trying to achieve? I honestly can not.

 

Well if the stats are misleading I'd say I'm happier to have us doing comparatively better in these things than having a clear plan as I dont see how it will make us have more shots or defend better, and won't change the fact we don't have a finisher. And nar, Pardew didn't have one other than that one season. If he did it was that unsuccessful it was literally a plan for failure.

Yeh fine he needs a striker to bail him out, as much as any manager is as good as his players. I dont see anyone in the prem with a worse strike-force than ours right now like.

Aw god not the Mitro argument, I still maintain he sees plenty more in training than we do as to him being the answer, or trying, otherwise let's bring the ginger pirlo back n all on the basis we haven't tried him.

I don't feel most fans (aside from your good self) do it because of a lack of plan though, the crowds been like that since long before Benitez.

I agree, I have literally screamed that our players don't actually move for each other and create any passes myself. Thing is I been saying that for years under Mclaren/Pardew/Carver. If the point is to say Rafa can do better, can we at least give him a team that isn't the worst in the PL to do better with and create said plans.

 

Well I suppose we will have to see. Under similar constraints Pardew never got relegated in 5 years at the club. His league positions were 12th, 5th, 10th, 16th. That according to you and others was failure and a poor job. So it should be easy for the great Rafa to surpass. I wonder if we are relegated if it will be his fault at all?

I think you are blinded by faith in Rafa to the point where you can’t bring yourself to criticise him when he is clearly doing a gash job at home. Not only are the results saying it, the performances are too. I can’t imagine many clubs have stayed up while averaging a point a game at home. I’ll give him credit when it’s due, like our away form. However I’m not gonna sit and pretend it’s just the lack of a striker why we are doing **** at home or that he is untouchable. He isn’t.

And yeah let’s not discuss Mitro. Let’s ignore his very decent PL record and plough on with a vastly inferior footballer who you think is incapable. Makes sense.

He should lose some weight too the fat ****