United's finances...

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I think what this means chaps, in the language of international finance, is that the yanks have rolled you over and f****d you rotten.
 
Archers Road said:
I think what this means chaps, in the language of international finance, is that the yanks have rolled you over and f****d you rotten.
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Its been painful since they took over, all those trophies we have won its so horrible.
 
Well, it seems you are owed the financial state of the club, & also have earned the incompetence of your present owners.

In the future, the people will ask;
'Just how did Utds empire crumble?'
The answer shall be ..............to the sounds of glorious applause. As long as we're winning, we don't care. Brilliant.

Not that I give a damn.
 
Style said:
Its been painful since they took over, all those trophies we have won its so horrible.
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You're not remotely worried then? Owned by Yanks, billions in debt, registered in the Cayman Islands, but so long as you keep winning things you're not bothered? Rangers demise doesn't bother you?
 
Just finished reading all 200+ pages and I am sorry for your troubles ManU. It won't be the same when they transfer you to Tennessee.
 
Originally Posted by LondonRed
Investors typcally hate being prejudiced against. I work at a bank in London and typically have to convince clients that want to keep a tight leash over voting control that it is a bad idea. I mean, i have a portfolio of companies that I invest in personally but I would never enter into a position like that even if i am only owning 0.0000001% of a company and my vote would matter little anyway.

Nevertheless, the dual share structure has worked for some companies. The Murdoch run News International as a good example. If you ignore the battering their share price has taken post the failed Bskyb bid and post the phone hacking scandal, it was a very successful media company despite its obviously flawed share structure.

I would point out a few things in case people are wondering, I have only skimmed over the short-form prospectus atm so can't be too thorough. Sorry if you knew this already, I don't mean to patronise.

The actual amount raised will be more than US$100. I phoned my mate at Jefferies in London and he said he would ask around as he knows a few people @ the NY office. Initial thoughts were this could be over US$500m, and anywhere up to US$1bn. It all depends on investor demand. If they can get the price they want (i will come onto this in a minute) then I can definitely see them flogging US$1bn. This is for 2 reasons. The first is that share sales are expensive. (genius) Let me elaborate. The cost of MUFC listing in NY without any sale of shares will still be high. Listing fees, acc fees, legal fees. That whole document of 283 pages would have been prepared even if they weren't selling any shares at all. That is required just to list as a public company. Therefore it is cost effective to split your fixed costs (those mentioned above) over as large a transaction size as possible. The only cost that will increase is the listing fees (negligably) and underwriting fees (massively). They also do not have the problem of losing control of the company (as outlined above). Basically, if demand is there, they will make the most of it. We won't know the banking fees until the underwriting agreement is finalised. Typically in the US legal fees are lower than the UK but banking fees are higher.

Markets are picking up nicely at the moment. The IPO market is still pretty lethargic after a really promising start to the year. Still a lot of anger about following the Facebook debacle so there is some weariness that may detract from our valuation. Morgan stanley off the syndicate was a good move; they were one of the main protagonists for the Facebook valuation and so are keeping their head down at the moment. Could be other reasons like they didn't agree with the Glazer's valuation though - proven by the existence of Jefferies as the lead bookrunner (unusual to say the least) as smaller banks like Jefferies suggest higher valuations to get onto syndicates they wouldn't otherwise have got anywhere near. I have absolutely no idea baout valuations at this point, but the banks must be nearing the Glazer's estimation for this to be proceeding now - 90 days to get it done.

The risk factors. Whilst it might look all doom and gloom, the factors listed in this section as 'threats' to the business is just complete legal bollocks that covers the companys backs should a doomsday scenario occur. They are just used to inform potential investors of the absolute worst case scenario so that they can't be sued should that 0.000001% chance of it occurring actually happen. Things like the Premier League/Sky may fold, we might lose all our sponsors etc. Nothing whatsoever to get worried about.

Dividend policy. Very good bit of news. No dividends will be payable to holders of A Shares for the foreseeable future. Whilst this is not 'binding' in the sense that dividends may be paid in the future at least it shows that the Glazers see the need to retain any profits in the near future for investment in players, and to pay down any debt (if there is any left) after the IPO. However, hidden away in the doc is a sneaky little £10m dividend paid to the Glazers in April of this year.

Use of proceeds. ALL OF THE PROCEEDS WILL BE USED TO PAY DOWN DEBT. WOOP!

Over-allotment option. Once the size of the offering has been clarified and the bookbuild is finished (the order book), the banks may sell additional shares on top of the total amount to be raised to satisfy demand in the secondary market. Essentially -the Glazers will only get any cash after all of the new shares have been sold, and it will be their existing shares that they are selling.

Management/consultancy fees. We paid c.£10m in total to the Glazers for these 'services' in the last 12 months. Again not great but not the end of the world. This kind of thing does not go down well at all with investors when the existing principal shareholder pays himself through the premise of 'consulting'. It certainly wouldn't be very attractive were it to remain in place but thankfully the plc will dispense with these 'services' prior to listing so no more hidden payments made to them.

Cayman Islands incorporation. Means absolutely nothing. No doubt newspaper boards will be full of "they don't even pay tax in this country, the robbing bastards" and we will ge the Jimmy Carr treatment. Fact of the matter is that we will be paying tax in the US (lower than the UK, but not Jersey low) so we will still be paying tax, just not in this country. Purely for capital gains tax reasons I believe although I am no where near knowledgable enough to confirm (lawyer in our team deals with all that nonsense).

Sorry for the long post. My dad rang me up to ask what was going on with it so assumed there might be others who are curious.
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Originally posted by LondonRed on Redcafe.

-------------------

Now, lets move on.
 
Billybob

This post has been highlighted to users at the other place where you are now banned and there is growing concern amongst us that you may quite ill. It isn't healthy to obsess about a team so much that you spend hours and hours trawling through the internet in order to try and make that club look bad to a few online supporters. In the grand scheme of your life, whether or not you are able to make Manchester United look bad to some people on the internet that you will never meet means absolutely nothing. Time to move on mate and seek fulfilment elsewhere.
 
Archers Road said:
You're not remotely worried then? Owned by Yanks, billions in debt, registered in the Cayman Islands, but so long as you keep winning things you're not bothered? Rangers demise doesn't bother you?
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Are you aware of the difference between Manchester United FC and Glasgow Rangers FC? Like for example everything?
 
Archers Road said:
You're not remotely worried then? Owned by Yanks, billions in debt, registered in the Cayman Islands, but so long as you keep winning things you're not bothered? Rangers demise doesn't bother you?
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Billions in debt? Rangers Demise?

Our debt gets smaller ever year and do you honestly believe Manchester United are going to go under like Rangers. Keep dreaming.
 
Elvis said:
Billybob

This post has been highlighted to users at the other place where you are now banned and there is growing concern amongst us that you may quite ill. It isn't healthy to obsess about a team so much that you spend hours and hours trawling through the internet in order to try and make that club look bad to a few online supporters. In the grand scheme of your life, whether or not you are able to make Manchester United look bad to some people on the internet that you will never meet means absolutely nothing. Time to move on mate and seek fulfilment elsewhere.
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Unfortuantely, I didn't trawl through the internet to make the club look bad, United released the document and it was all over the place! And having read your response it it is clear that this issue does in fact paint a bleak picture of United and their finances, I gathered that from your need to make me look bad rather than addressing the actual issue!

I am actually okay with the fact that you find it necessary to address me personally rather than the actual topic, however, I didn't saddle United with debt and I have no control over the proposed flotation(?) on the NYSE...it is a topic worthy of consideration is it not? So, why not comment on the topic instead of having a dig at me? <ok>

Listen, I understand why United fans will not want to discuss this issue, they have had problems with their owners ever since they took over, and judging by the response to this news they still do. But you cannot seriously tell me that it is not worthy of debate, it is a massive issue and one which will only rumble on until the Glazers stop bleeding your club for as much as they can...but hey, let's not discuss that, let's have a dig at BillyBob instead! Fair enough!

<ok>
 
BillyBobTaunton

Your obsessed with Man Utd. Get out more, there is more to life then being obsessed with Man Utd Football Club.
 
Schumacher said:
BillyBobTaunton

Your obsessed with Man Utd. Get out more, there is more to life then being obsessed with Man Utd Football Club.
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Another United 'fan' who is more interested in having a pop at me rather than talking about his club!

Listen, I know I comment on United a lot, but does that really matter? Surely United's finances and the actions of the Glazer's are more worthy of your comment, rather than 'lil ol me!

<ok>
 
BillyBobTaunton said:
Unfortuantely, I didn't trawl through the internet to make the club look bad, United released the document and it was all over the place! And having read your response it it is clear that this issue does in fact paint a bleak picture of United and their finances, I gathered that from your need to make me look bad rather than addressing the actual issue!

I am actually okay with the fact that you find it necessary to address me personally rather than the actual topic, however, I didn't saddle United with debt and I have no control over the proposed flotation(?) on the NYSE...it is a topic worthy of consideration is it not? So, why not comment on the topic instead of having a dig at me? <ok>

Listen, I understand why United fans will not want to discuss this issue, they have had problems with their owners ever since they took over, and judging by the response to this news they still do. But you cannot seriously tell me that it is not worthy of debate, it is a massive issue and one which will only rumble on until the Glazers stop bleeding your club for as much as they can...but hey, let's not discuss that, let's have a dig at BillyBob instead! Fair enough!

<ok>
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You're getting boring BillyBob, do you wish to get banned from yet another site? Might as well change your name to BannedBillyBob, it's got a nice ring to it <laugh>

Final warning!

(channelling bazray here) <whistle>
 
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