Match Day Thread United vs Fulham

[cytrax]

A lot of them seem to forget that we often finished 2nd-4th with SAF and that was with much better players and that was without a sublime City and rampant Liverpool to compete against.
Yes we had Arsenal and Chelsea but they never got close to 100 points in a season, times have changed and we are improving from a long way back.

Which much better players? I hope you're not for real there.

Also, City have been far from sublime this season. They were always there for the taking but our manager always have other ideas for our "almost"men squad.

Last year, we ended the season with 66 points, same as the season before it. This season, maybe we will get maximum points of 74. That would be MIGHTY 8 points better than last season. Two extra wins and 2 draws.

So, NO! Let's not delude ourselves with how much we have improved because we are somehow "closer" to the top. This squad had enough talents this season to have given City a run for their money. However, the difference was not in quality of the two squads, but rather inability of our manager to execute a defined expansive plan when we most needed to take results.

With Ole at the helm, I am highly confident that we will not be this close to winning the league again until he is gone.

 

[Chief]

Interesting black or white conversation here.

Personally, can see a bit of both sides. I think we have improved, but could have done even better.

In January, we were in a genuine title contest.

FWIW I stuck £10 on us at 25-1 when we had lost dismally to Arsenal early in the season. In January, I was being offered £45 cash out we'd improved so much.

Then Ole started his 'little old United, we won't get carried away' bollocks rhetoric and we lost at home to Sheffield United, played for a draw v Arsenal threw away a 3-1 lead to Everton and then could only manage a draw v West Brom and it was all over.

I know the Ole fan club here blamed the players but, really sorry, that was on Ole.

He blew it. Set the wrong tone and the players all bought into it, thought they weren't good enough and followed the leader.

He needs to STFU with that bollocks. Hopefully he'll learn but we can't afford that nonsense again next season, when there will be no more excuses.

 

[Christiansmith]

Interesting black or white conversation here.

Personally, can see a bit of both sides. I think we have improved, but could have done even better.

In January, we were in a genuine title contest.

FWIW I stuck £10 on us at 25-1 when we had lost dismally to Arsenal early in the season. In January, I was being offered £45 cash out we'd improved so much.

Then Ole started his 'little old United, we won't get carried away' bollocks rhetoric and we lost at home to Sheffield United, played for a draw v Arsenal threw away a 3-1 lead to Everton and then could only manage a draw v West Brom and it was all over.

I know the Ole fan club here blamed the players but, really sorry, that was on Ole.

He blew it. Set the wrong tone and the players all bought into it, thought they weren't good enough and followed the leader.

He needs to STFU with that bollocks. Hopefully he'll learn but we can't afford that nonsense again next season, when there will be no more excuses.

Classic glass half full half empty example. You won’t see me arguing against these points. No one is arguing he hasn’t ****ed up in some matches and that he couldn’t have done much better.. Pep has in some matches. Tuchel who has had the press lick his **** since he’s arrived has ****ed up in some big matches So has Klopp in dismantling his midfield to repair his defence. Mourinho who everyone thought was doing a wonderful job at Spurs only a few months ago got sacked . Arteta who the press thought was the bees knees couldn’t even get his team a European place.

Of course it is not quite black or white. But when some push only the black, others try to redress the balance . Yes he has learnt on the job, and if he continues learning and improving some of us won’t be whinging. Anyway I can’t see the GGs sacking him when he’s brought the only trophy they care about - CL qualification can you? However much we care about this title or that trophy, our greedy owners couldn’t give a ****. For them 4th is as good as first as long as they can extract huge amounts from the club every year.

 

[Chief]

Look, I'm not on here calling for him to be sacked because we drew at home to Fulham.

But equally, I'm not remotely arsed by what other managers at other clubs have done, I only care what is happening at United.

If we don't genuinely challenge next season and we slip back into "we're not quite there or good enough to challenge the mighty City" mode, then he can then **** off for me.

This is assuming he gets the three players we need to bolster the squad. Which he/we genuinely need.

On the Glazers; if they are to be taken at face value (which for now I will do), then they will listen to supporters and realise that as a club United win trophies.

ON TOP OF achieving top 4.

 

[Christiansmith]

Look, I'm not on here calling for him to be sacked because we drew at home to Fulham.

But equally, I'm not remotely arsed by what other managers at other clubs have done, I only care what is happening at United.

If we don't genuinely challenge next season and we slip back into "we're not quite there or good enough to challenge the mighty City" mode, then he can then **** off for me.

This is assuming he gets the three players we need to bolster the squad. Which he/we genuinely need.

On the Glazers; if they are to be taken at face value (which for now I will do), then they will listen to supporters and realise that as a club United win trophies.

ON TOP OF achieving top 4.

No argument here. However I’m 100% sure that if Pochetino or any of the touted managers had been in charge this season (had OGS been dismissed after the dismal start) they would have been praised to the rafters for taking us to 2nd ahead of the RS and Chelsea (just like Tuchel was after Lampard’s sacking), finishing on > 71 points and a Europa final which could be won.

anyone who says they wouldn’t have praised the new manager is simply lying.

 

[Chief]

He's done well.

Still need to win that final next week though.

2nd place trophy not enough.

 

[glazerfodder]

I think this has been a difficult season all round - for all the clubs, and in many cases the lack of home fans and the support is carries has had an impact. There were no intimidating crowds - for players or managers, and it will be interesting to see how long the OT crowd reacts if we keep losing at home and they have to have the patience while we fight back from going behind. Ole has earned the right to another season in front of full-house crowds - if we are still way off the mark next season we can look elsewhere.

 

[cytrax]

Only on this board do people not confront the reality that Ole is not good enough to bring something fresh to the table. He is actively learning on the job and we, the viewers, are hoping that it pays off. That is the epitome of madness as we continue to pat ourselves on the back that output is improving when it the grand scheme of investments made, we are barely moving forward, gentlemen. Let's not kid ourselves. We take a step forward and a step back to the same starting point. That is the absolute confirmed trend even with all the great talents in this team. We have not even come close to the consistency of Jose Mourinho's first season. Do we seriously think that team had better players than we have now? We had Smalling and Jones getting games, ffs!

Yes, we will win the EL (I hope so!). But United is not Seville!! We spend far too much to accept that as some sort of achievement for the team with the highest wage bill in the league. The same way no one gives a sht that we won the EL trophy just few seasons ago, no one will give a sht in few weeks when it is done while City or Chelsea flash the European Cup in our faces.

The lack of acknowledgement that Ole has his limits is why we will be having the same fkin conversation a year from now. Mark this post!

 

[glazerfodder]

Tell me who his replacement might be and I'll take some interest in the debate. Any new manager has to be an upgrade on Ole, a better fit for Manchester United, but I honestly can't see who that might be. How many times in recent years have we bought into past glories - LVG and Jose, only to find that not only does it not work out, but the unrest and destabilisation they cause last for years, not to mention the players brought in on lengthy contracts who the next manager can't get rid of.

Someone tell me who the next guaranteed successful manager should be and I might take an interest, but the simple fact of the matter is that there isn't a manager on the planet who could guarantee and better success than Ole. I do call it success because it is incremental, the players are gelling, there is potential for us to improve and challenge for honours and just a few tweaks here and there could be the answer.

List all the likely suspects and the answer will be the same - they would all be a risk, a speculative leap, in which case I would stick with Ole and give him time to develop, to learn and to improve. I find it very telling that the owners have steadfastly stuck behind Ole when Moyes, LVG and Jose were out on their ears.

 

[Christiansmith]

Tell me who his replacement might be and I'll take some interest in the debate. Any new manager has to be an upgrade on Ole, a better fit for Manchester United, but I honestly can't see who that might be. How many times in recent years have we bought into past glories - LVG and Jose, only to find that not only does it not work out, but the unrest and destabilisation they cause last for years, not to mention the players brought in on lengthy contracts who the next manager can't get rid of.

Someone tell me who the next guaranteed successful manager should be and I might take an interest, but the simple fact of the matter is that there isn't a manager on the planet who could guarantee and better success than Ole. I do call it success because it is incremental, the players are gelling, there is potential for us to improve and challenge for honours and just a few tweaks here and there could be the answer.

List all the likely suspects and the answer will be the same - they would all be a risk, a speculative leap, in which case I would stick with Ole and give him time to develop, to learn and to improve. I find it very telling that the owners have steadfastly stuck behind Ole when Moyes, LVG and Jose were out on their ears.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[cytrax]

This nonsense about "tell me who the next manager" should be is boring. Knock it off! We are probably the only club in the world where is it virtually impossible to change because we claim to ourselves that there are simply no suitors in world. Such fkin nonsense to continue to accommodate mediocrity and pat ourselves on the back to coming second. We might as well rename the team to Le Arsenal United.

It is lazy and flat out the worst excuse in the book.

 

[glazerfodder]

This nonsense about "tell me who the next manager" should in boring. Knock it off! We are probably the only club in the world where is it virtually impossible to change because we claim to ourselves that there are simply no suitors in world. Such fkin nonsense to continue to accommodate mediocrity and pat ourselves on the back to coming second. We might as well rename the team to Le Arsenal United.

It is lazy and flat out the worst excuse in the book.

What an almighty cop out - simple question, who in your opinion should replace Ole - who is this one who will lead us out of the wilderness - let me guess.... Pep

 

[cytrax]

Bollocks - simple question, who in your opinion should replace Ole.............

That's like asking me who the next CEO of a company that I'm invested in should be. That's not my job!

For United, my answer to you would be that there are tons of managers out there. It is the responsibility of the board to find list of suitors. But don't give me that the lazy line of thinking that I need to provide list of suitors for me to justify the argument that the team has underperformed under Ole.

If Ole decides to quit today for personal reasons, I guess we would be without a manager next season because we are just too darn lazy to find suitors in world of football.

 

[glazerfodder]

That's like asking me who the next CEO of a company that I'm invested in should be. That's not my job!

For United, my answer to you would be that there are tons of managers out there. It is the responsibility of the board to find list of suitors. But don't give me that the lazy line of thinking that I need to provide list of suitors for me to justify the argument that the team has underperformed under Ole.

If Ole decides to quit today for personal reasons, I guess we would be without a manager next season because we are just too darn lazy to find suitors in world of football.

Again. Simple questions - which manager has the attributes that you feel Ole is lacking? Or - who would you like to see in charge of Manchester United next season, or, .....................

If you can't come up with a viable alternative, don't criticise the man in post.

 

[cytrax]

If you can't come up with a viable alternative, don't criticise the man in post.

That’s funny! Since when has that ever been the rule to criticize a manager? What bunch of baloney!

You’re making up insidious rule to nullify an argument that is just. That’s absurd and suggests that you are largely unable to have an unbiased perspective with regards to Ole.

Did we ever to provide list of next managers to justify why Jose wasn’t the right man for the club? How about LvG? Did you provide list of next managers to engage in the debates then? I bet that list if you ever provided one didn’t include Ole.

Providing a list of next managers is not a requisite to justifiably point to the current manager’s lack.

I’ll leave it there.

 

[glazerfodder]

My point to highlight the fact that there are no managers out there who are guaranteed to do a better job than Ole - anyone new is a risk - unless you get Pep.

 

[cytrax]

My point to highlight the fact that there are no managers out there who are guaranteed to do a better job than Ole - anyone new is a risk - unless you get Pep.

BS!

Your point there is that Ole is essentially the second best manager in the world.

Yes, there is always a risk with change. No one can foretell outcome of different scenarios. However, it is the job of the board to find the right profile that fits the club strategy.

If that remains our mentality as a club, then mediocrity is forever guaranteed because we are too lazy to do our homework.

With Ole in charge and using the trend thus far, I think that we all know exactly what the next year will bring yet again.

 

[Treble]

My point to highlight the fact that there are no managers out there who are guaranteed to do a better job than Ole - anyone new is a risk - unless you get Pep.

It's a fair point but how many would've said the same when Ron Atkinson was in charge? Just saying

 

[Christiansmith]

This is really weird. I seem to be living in some parallel universe.

I could have understood that in October last year when we were at a low ebb and European qualification was looking a distant prospect some of us would be asking for a new manager. But after an (albeit poor) draw in a meaningless match, but securing 2nd place before the last day and still with a European final to come?

This debate is as meaningless as it is absurd. We know he is going to be with us for another season at least. Why don’t we support him instead of crucifying him?

 

[Treble]

I'll reserve judgement until after the Europa final. He deserves criticism for the last 3 league games though. It was a shambles.