United , here we go again.

[Chelsea Pensioner]

Judging by the results of both teams during the last week or so, United have run into very good form, while we are still miles from the understanding and teamwork we need to worry the best teams. That said Utd turned their form from a 6-1 defeat to winning away against PSG , so it is not impossible we could do the same and at least run this one very close.
My hope is that Frank uses his subs quicker and better than the last couple of games.
Mendy
James Silva Zouma Chilwell
Kovacic Kante
Havertz
CHO Pulisic
Werner

Subs
Willy, Mount, Jorginho, Ziyech, CHO, Tomori, Dave, Giroud. I take Giroud above Abraham because he keeps on doing what Abraham can't do often enough, score.

 

[Naas Blue]

Happy enough with point and clean sheet. On the quality of the game...it has to go down as one of the most boring games in the history of the Prem ! I was tempted to ring Virgin for a rebate on my subscription !!!

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

Happy enough with point and clean sheet. On the quality of the game...it has to go down as one of the most boring games in the history of the Prem ! I was tempted to ring Virgin for a rebate on my subscription !!!

Dreadful game with zero quality from either team and zero ambition. Werner must be wondering what he's got himself into, so abysmal was the midfield service. Havertz was hopeless, Chilwell spent most of the game stopping, then turning and passing backwards, and he was supposed to be a wing back !!!!
Mendy saved our arses more than once, and the defence was much better with Silva. Reece James and Pulisic were the other 2 who actually tried to do something positive. Lampard again was hopeless with his subs. a recurring theme for him.Still waiting to see any sign of the quality attackers we spent 200mill bringing in.Don't think we will until we replace Jorginho with a solid creative midfield controller, his long passes to the wide men don't cut it, as nothing goes through the middle. He's just not suited to our style of play, whatever that is.
Oh, and we were denied a cast iron penalty, but in truth didn't deserve more than the point we got. Roll on next game and Billy Gilmour ASAP.
It has to get better cause it can't get worse.

 

[Super_Chelsea_Blue_Boys]

I think the rain played a part in the poor quality of the game.
The new boys need some slack. It’s a new league and we know they have the quality. They need time to adjust.
A decent result and an important clean sheet. Next.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

I think the rain played a part in the poor quality of the game.
The new boys need some slack. It’s a new league and we know they have the quality. They need time to adjust.
A decent result and an important clean sheet. Next.

It's not the new boys who are the problem it's the same "old boys" in midfield who are, and always have been the problem for the last 3 managers. Jorginho ,beyond useless, Kante , played out of position, dodgy passing, not a natural attacker, but best defender there is. Now Havertz, who is NOT a wide player but front and centre of midfield, is out wide doing a passable imitation of Barkley. Terrible set up, based around extraordinary faith in Jorginho being able to run the midfield.
Time we have, but time won't improve our midfield.
Frank needs to seriously rethink his tactics and selections, because very little is getting better, though the defence certainly is because of Silva , and very few players are improving. Trust in the players, play them in their correct positions, and stop all the caution.

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

It's not the new boys who are the problem it's the same "old boys" in midfield who are, and always have been the problem for the last 3 managers. Jorginho ,beyond useless, Kante , played out of position, dodgy passing, not a natural attacker, but best defender there is. Now Havertz, who is NOT a wide player but front and centre of midfield, is out wide doing a passable imitation of Barkley. Terrible set up, based around extraordinary faith in Jorginho being able to run the midfield.
Time we have, but time won't improve our midfield.
Frank needs to seriously rethink his tactics and selections, because very little is getting better, though the defence certainly is because of Silva , and very few players are improving. Trust in the players, play them in their correct positions, and stop all the caution.

thought you wanted Kante in the defensive midfield role?

He is actually at his best pressing, intercepting and giving the ball to creatives when positioned higher up the field ahead of a DM

See Kante under Conte with Matic behind him

under Ranieri with Drinkwater behind him

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

thought you wanted Kante in the defensive midfield role?

He is actually at his best pressing, intercepting and giving the ball to creatives when positioned higher up the field ahead of a DM

See Kante under Conte with Matic behind him

under Ranieri with Drinkwater behind him

What I'd like is Kante used in his best position, which is definitely defensive mid. His play so far this season, injuries aside has been below normal with so many poor passes. In my opinion, this is largely due to playing beside Jorginho, who can't defend and doesn't attack. I am sure that's why Frank is so keen on Rice, to play the Matic role for us. With Kovacic , Kante can play his natural game. Kova does make runs forward, engages defenders, plus he can defend, unlike Jorginho. Problem is, no one else has shown they can play the role of joining the back 4 to the front 3, either with runs or by splitting defences with passes for the target men. I thought that's why we bought Havertz, but so far he's been played wide of centre. But isn't that why we bought Ziyech ? And Pulisic for the left of the front 3, but he's been played on the right. Frank obviously has a plan, but I don't understand why he doesn't try everyone where they are best suited, and see how things develop. He's done that with the back 4, so hopefully next will be the midfield. I think the sum of the parts is why we are not connecting back to front. I understand we need time to sort all these things out, but so far it's just messy. Pity we didn't buy Luca Modric those few years ago, he's exactly the type of player we need now.
Here's the line up I'd love to see tried. 4-3-3
Mendy
James Zouma Silva Chilwell
Kante Havertz Kovacic
Ziyech Werner Pulisic.

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

What I'd like is Kante used in his best position, which is definitely defensive mid. His play so far this season, injuries aside has been below normal with so many poor passes. In my opinion, this is largely due to playing beside Jorginho, who can't defend and doesn't attack. I am sure that's why Frank is so keen on Rice, to play the Matic role for us. With Kovacic , Kante can play his natural game. Kova does make runs forward, engages defenders, plus he can defend, unlike Jorginho. Problem is, no one else has shown they can play the role of joining the back 4 to the front 3, either with runs or by splitting defences with passes for the target men. I thought that's why we bought Havertz, but so far he's been played wide of centre. But isn't that why we bought Ziyech ? 4-3-3
Mendy
James Zouma Silva Chilwell
Kante Havertz Kovacic
Ziyech Werner Pulisic.

ziyech has been injured but that will be our first XI when everyone is fit.

Kante is at his best more as a box to box player

he is wasted sitting deep and static as a conventional DM

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

It's not the new boys who are the problem it's the same "old boys" in midfield who are, and always have been the problem for the last 3 managers. Jorginho ,beyond useless, Kante , played out of position, dodgy passing, not a natural attacker, but best defender there is. Now Havertz, who is NOT a wide player but front and centre of midfield, is out wide doing a passable imitation of Barkley. Terrible set up, based around extraordinary faith in Jorginho being able to run the midfield.

Havertz has been playing central midfield in no 10 role for a month

jorghino came in because Kova was injured

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

[QUOTE="Chelsea Pensioner, post: 14245484, member: 1013403] Reece James and Pulisic were the other 2 who actually tried to do something positive. Lampard again was hopeless with his subs. a recurring theme for him.Still waiting to see any sign of the quality attackers we spent 200mill bringing in.Don't think we will until we replace Jorginho with a solid creative midfield controller, his long passes to the wide men don't cut it, as nothing goes through the middle. He's just not suited to our style of play, whatever that is.
Oh, and we were denied a cast iron penalty, but in truth didn't deserve more than the point we got. Roll on next game and Billy Gilmour ASAP.
It has to get better cause it can't get worse.[/QUOTE]

did you not see Timo v saints??

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

[QUOTE="Chelsea Pensioner, post: 14245484, member: 1013403] Reece James and Pulisic were the other 2 who actually tried to do something positive. Lampard again was hopeless with his subs. a recurring theme for him.Still waiting to see any sign of the quality attackers we spent 200mill bringing in.Don't think we will until we replace Jorginho with a solid creative midfield controller, his long passes to the wide men don't cut it, as nothing goes through the middle. He's just not suited to our style of play, whatever that is.
Oh, and we were denied a cast iron penalty, but in truth didn't deserve more than the point we got. Roll on next game and Billy Gilmour ASAP.
It has to get better cause it can't get worse.

did you not see Timo v saints??[/QUOTE]
I did, I also saw him/them against Seville and Utd., and every other game we've played, just unimpressed at the lack of improvement impact on TEAM play. Timo got 2 great individual goals, Havertz one as well, but both were anonymous in the other games because of our poor midfield. and lack of cohesive team play. Lumping long balls forward is OK for Giroud or a Drogba , but a waste of time with Werner. Give Frank credit for fixing the problem of defence with the inspired signing of Silva, and the signing of the front 3, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to realise the midfield is unbalanced and devoid of creativity, cause it's been that way for 2 seasons now.
.Havertz rooted to a proper #10 position would be a good start, and sure we'll work through this and get the flow happening. I need to keep remembering this needs time, so I'll start being more optimistic and positive.