no its not is is going straight though them as they cannot get set up. I understand they now have a primary budget surplus but when the debt servicing comes in they are totaly screwed. the same eurocrats to dragged them into euro and trying to force them out now cos they won't stump up. the whole world sees they can't pay. half the world has sold their debt on at vastly reduced lvels to vultures who then collect when they pay then sell on again. If the ECB just bought the **** back at 5p on the pound and wrote it off its be all over. the real story is the italians are unsupportable and if greece gets it then the rest will demand it. nobody can bail out italy WHEN and not IF it goes down.
The Troika wants greece to sell its islands, which are a source of economic income, for a one time pay off to service debts and forever losing the income they provide. Greece would be ****ing stupid to listen to the troika
They are not trying to force greece out, the terms imposed on Greece are also planned for Spain and italy, and if Greece get a special deal then those austerity measures cannot be applied to Italy and Spain. If Greece leaves, then Spain might, Italy might, it could start a domino effect Also, if greece just refused the loans from the ECB when the crash happened banks, private banks would have failed, and with them German and french private banks. Then what would greece owe? **** all but state debt. State debt can be addressed with bonds and other such measures, and greece has improved it's tax system and now tax is 44% of GDP, this could have been done without ECB loans to cover debts to foreign banks. The whole bailout MITO was to save banks it had **** all to do with saving countries. It was about transferring private NOT state debt, onto the heads of people. Generations of people not just us here today
Iceland proved that the bailout system and austerity was the wrong choice, Iceland proved it beyond all doubt and why is it not in the media this success story. The answer if obvious, if you think the media is not ALL controlled, then I can't help you This whole process is about transferring Europe's wealth into private hands before TTIP is signed which entails making it impossible to re nationalise private enterprises. This is entirely engineered. Why do you think countries have immense debt globally, cos they are ****ing owned by the bankers. Perpetual debt forever, endless profit. Of course I am just a "conspiracy theorist"
UK debt is 90% of GDP. 90% of £1.517.700.000.000 £1.2 trillion debt. Tell me how your country has not been loansharked by banks? They keep talking about the deficite to avoid talking about the debt it is a con. You the tax payer will NEVER be out of debt to banks Greek debt as it stands is half or less than half of that ffs. That just puts it into context. if you were in the Euro currency, the UK would be in dire straits financially. As it stands like the US, the bank of England is pumping in money into the system without any goods or services to back it in the form of quantitative easing, ie putting more money in circulation, which reduces the worth of the pounds you get paid.
According to the BBC the Greek referendum question makes no sense: please log in to view this image Does anyone here fail to understand that voting NO means you don't accept the current plan and voing YES means you do accept it? Apparently the BBC thinks everyone is ******ed.
Different "experts" have different views on the Greece situation. I think like some here that Greece will suffer for decades if they vote yes and stay in the Euro. They will have austerity for years and will have to keep paying debt interest for a long time unless there is some debt write offs and some major re-structuring. Greeks will have to live in poverty and with major unemployment for decades. More than 70%-80% of all the new loans apparently go towards paying interest on money owed and only a small fraction goes to the people. I too think that the best solution will be for the Greeks to come out of the Euro and suffer some short term pain and uncertainty. But at least they will have control of their destiny and not at the mercy of the money men and the likes of germany and France for decades. We can all blame the greeks for their lavish spending when the going was good but who amongst us will not have taken advantage? the reality is that the greeks were never in a position to join the Euro. Their economy was not good enough, their tax system very inefficient (shorthand for saying tax evasion was and is rife) and their public sector was just too generous (allowing early retirements (at 55!) on pensions which were 90% of wages). The situation could not be sustained. BUT they are where they are now and there is no point blaming people for not looking at a gift horse in the mouth. Germany and France were so keen to push their political agenda that they were willing to turn a blind eye to an economic issue. I also think a major factor in the crisis has been the arrogance and intransigeance of the current government. The PM and in particular the finance minster (an academic with a PhD on game theory) over played their hand. Basically they calculated that there was no way the other countries and the finance organisations (ECB, IMF etc) would let Greece leave the Euro and behaved as such. They were rude and rubbed off the various key people the wrong way. When you have debts and want the bank manager to restructure the loan repayment, you don't tell him to go and **** himself do you.?..
The problem for greece as well as other countries is, the IMF and ECB and Troika deflate the economy and the currency then demand you sell them your assets at deflated prices and the money goes into the debt black hole. How does that help greece or any other country? It's a ****ing con
This is not just an EU problem, the banks just went and did the exact same thing to Ukraine. Of course a regime change was needed first because the former government was refusing to follow this path, coincidence? you think the regime change wasn't related to this firesale of Ukraine? C'mon people ffs.
If Greece votes yes....IMF is going to implement (SAP) structural adjustment policy ,if they failed to do it, it's going to put pressure on Euro ,I am not sure if this can result in devaluation of Euro, alternatively, other members using the currency have to make more sacrifices visible or invisible. If it's no ,they are going to leave the union and the currency. For years to come people have to live in poverty. Greece between the DEVIL AND DEEP SEA. Voting No can also result in unrest and civil war because other former members have to fold their hands,
How can you say they over played their hand? The leaked documents show Europe tried to overplay its hand and demand deals they knew were massively in their favour and would not actually work for Greece. Now Europe is secretly trying to keep a deal alive because they know all their power and money is about to collapse with the Euro because they couldn't keep their astounding greed in check.
Usually the case with lenders and borrowers...small print. cannot be understood when you are in desperate need.
I cannot argue against that. They had a strong hand to begin with and the greeks were weak. It seems that the key thing for the Euro negotiators was to keep the Euro going and to bring Greece to full compliance. Sure they never had the welfare of the Greek people in mind but I still thought the PM and the finance minister came across as being belligerent and cocky. Thats my perception reading the press anyway. That is why I think the Greeks are better out than in. But I feel they'll probably vote yes to austerity. Tsipras and varoufakis are telling everyone that a No vote will get them better terms. I just don't think it will.
Puerto Rico has gone ot the wall now as well. A large part of the issue was.. Goldman Sachs and Citibank helping them into this disaster by setting up 120 billion of bond sales in 2000, and got paid a billion for helping with this guaranteed destruction down the road, which has materialised. Goldman Sachs also, with the ECB and IMF no doubt also as we know frauded Greece into the EU. This increased the "value" of Greek debt. Debt it could never pay, especially with ECB\IMF austerity. The ECB IMF and banks knew what they were doing giving the previous greek government the means to wreck the country selling bonds that couldn't be cashed in when they matured knowing damn well that it would lead to a deflationary period where the country would be forced to take bailouts and have a greek firesale. This does not absolve the previous greek government but this is not accidental. This accounts for so much public debt. It's strange, I am reading the word "communism" in the media and a lot of demonisation of the greek left government. They need to get out, go back to a national currency, take the hit and recover. Taking more money from the IMF and ECB will keep the country in debt for ever. Some EU states are starting to look like 3rd world states.
The thing is a bit of personal responsibility would not go astray as well. It's clear that the Greek have been rode here and it's clear the European project has utterly failed with a total inability to make a simple decision at the heart of most of this crisis.... the Greeks problem has doubled in size while people who are on tennis creditor side sit back and refuse to make a call. The reality is when the Greeks do go.... some banks somewhere might go with them. The european system seems in capable of making a politically unpopular decision either in Germany or in Greece.
It's not a vote on eu membership. It's not a vote on euro membership. It's a vote on accepting cuts that would cripple most. A no vote will put the cat amongst thecpidgeons
We Irish know what the ECB and Troika are and the damage and theft they are carrying out. Irish solidarity with Greece march, **** the EU nazis and their Troika, **** Germany, **** the right wing fascist bankers The banker media are trying to make the Greek government look like communist maniacs as they do with anyone who puts people and a nation before banker profits and theft
Szu here - It's time for a bit of shameless self promotion. I was in Germany this week talking to policymakers about the situation in Greece. The view from Berlin was very different to that in Athens. It was the week Germany turned its back on Greece - or at the very least this Greek government. You can read all about my adventures here. please log in to view this image 19.30 No or yes, ΝΑΙ γ Όχι it seems a bad deal either way please log in to view this image Constantine is worried what his 87-year-old Grandmother will have to return to in Greece please log in to view this image I am American born. Educated in the States. Spent nearly every summer in Greece. I have dual citizenship. I could fly to Athens to vote. I would vote NO. But in my opinion I have no right to this. I am removed from it. I do not live there and am only peripherally aware of the reality in Greece. My concern is for Aunts, Uncles, and cousins. My 87 year old Grandmother is here with us for the next few months celebrating child births and the weddings of family here in the US. What will she go home to find? Will she be able to go home? She is lucky to be here where she has family to care for her. No monetary concerns. No or yes, ΝΑΙ γ Όχι it seems a bad deal either way. Constantine Cincinnati, Ohio 19.05 Is there a chance of last minute reprieve for Greece? The cavalry is on its way in the usual form of Yorkshire Tea drinker and York City fan Thom Feeney. The 'Greek bailout fund' crowdfunding campaign was started by 29-year-old London-based Mr Feeney last week and has now raised €1.8m, from more than 100,000 people, or less than 1pc of the €1.6bn required.
I read that today on the telegraph is it? Greece has to say **** you EU it will be hard for some years but like Iceland they can recover and be much better, in 10 years they will be infinitely better off than they will in 50 years staying in the EU with the bailout loans, they will never get out of debt. Iceland jailed bankers, when did the UK last jail a banker for the banking crash? Because Iceland let it's people decide the UK gov called Iceland's actions terrorism
