Off Topic UK / EU Future

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oldfrenchhorn said:
You have summed up rather well my fears of how some people seem to have have become extreme since the referendum. I still struggle to understand why this has happened. It seems that a the cork has been taken out of the bottle and it has released too much to be forced back in. I could write at length about other countries that have protests which seem to be violent at the time, but it is almost as if that demonstration releases the hatred. In the UK which doesn't have the same culture, it is almost as if individuals have some sort of pent up anger, that boils over from time to time. I don't believe it is something on a national basis at present, but there are forces at work that are spreading dark stuff that some are happy to pick up. Anyway thanks for your contribution dyhk, do come more often.
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The Brexit movement needed a broad basis of support which, if successfull, it will no longer subsequently need. It has enlisted some of the darker elements of our society - people who were so desparate they had to grasp at something - people who the Rees Moggs of this World would discard at a moments notice, once no longer needed. The Rees Moggs or the Farages of this World will, of course, disassociate themselves from all violent acts, or acts of overt xenophobia, as if it were nothing to do with them.
 
colognehornet said:
The Brexit movement needed a broad basis of support which, if successfull, it will no longer subsequently need. It has enlisted some of the darker elements of our society - people who were so desparate they had to grasp at something - people who the Rees Moggs of this World would discard at a moments notice, once no longer needed. The Rees Moggs or the Farages of this World will, of course, disassociate themselves from all violent acts, or acts of overt xenophobia, as if it were nothing to do with them.
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I don't disagree with that cologne, but I do find it frightening when I read comments from some who exist in that strange world of some tabloid newspapers. There are some who seem to be on the brink that only need a little nudge to join with the extremists, as well as those who joined up some time ago. Some comments we see here from time to time are straight from the tabloids, not real thoughts about where this will take us, but it makes a good soundbite. There is a huge amount that can be explored, social conditions, education, social media, but as Mme tells me who knows about such things, the attention span of a 65 year old is heading towards that of a five year old, so probably not a good place to make an in depth study. :emoticon-0100-smile
Apologies to all the youngsters.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Might I remind you that under the current rules your party does not have a majority. Your leader asked for a larger majority and the voters have said no. To think that represents any faith in the Tories is delusional.
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May I remind you the only opposition to the Tories has lost 3 elections in a row and has failed to make any progress since the last election. Maybe your mystery political party is just around the corner? Perhaps a surprise LibDem revival, keep dreaming OFH.
 
superhorns said:
May I remind you the only opposition to the Tories has lost 3 elections in a row and has failed to make any progress since the last election. Maybe your mystery political party is just around the corner? Perhaps a surprise LibDem revival, keep dreaming OFH.
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If all the news sources are to be believed, this PM will not be in No. 10 much longer. She has displayed all the same traits as Thatcher, an unwillingness to listen and compromise, and managed to lose the party its majority when she didn't even need to have an election. To be fair to her there was never going to be the slightest chance of sorting out a withdrawal from the EU within two years, but with some in her party being prepared to wreck the country for their own gain and leave on the worst of terms, she was in a hard place. Having successfully split the country the Tories are now showing signs of splitting themselves into factions. The extremists really should go and stand on a different ticket as they are now far removed from mainstream Tory policies.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
If all the news sources are to be believed, this PM will not be in No. 10 much longer. She has displayed all the same traits as Thatcher, an unwillingness to listen and compromise, and managed to lose the party its majority when she didn't even need to have an election. To be fair to her there was never going to be the slightest chance of sorting out a withdrawal from the EU within two years, but with some in her party being prepared to wreck the country for their own gain and leave on the worst of terms, she was in a hard place. Having successfully split the country the Tories are now showing signs of splitting themselves into factions. The extremists really should go and stand on a different ticket as they are now far removed from mainstream Tory policies.
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tory party tearing itself to pieces will be a positive result of this total mess , created by them , for no other reason than self indulgence
 
superhorns said:
May I remind you the only opposition to the Tories has lost 3 elections in a row and has failed to make any progress since the last election. Maybe your mystery political party is just around the corner? Perhaps a surprise LibDem revival, keep dreaming OFH.
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Your problem SH. is that you are a member of a party which, up until a couple of years ago, was a 'remain' party - and still is as far as the Parliamentary party is concerned. The only opposition to the EU prior to this present government had come from the left of the Labour Party (remember Foot's manifesto, or Tony Benn's assessment of the EU). I actually feel very sorry for TM. she inherited a mess left over by Britain's worst ever PM - a prat who was inept at everything other than having photos taken with huskies, but who is now peacefully writing his memoirs. In 99.9% of all cases governments offer referendums over things which they want to do - they say 'We would like to do A', do you agree ? That way even if they lose, they don't actually have to do anything. But of course Cameron had to do it differently - ensuring that everyone who didn't actually like the government could use the opportunity of a protest vote, and opening the risk that Government would have to negotiate something which they don't want over a 2 year period, and which they know will harm the country. The problem is that the Brexiteers have a mandate only for Brexit (of some sort), but not for government. In order to actually achieve the hard Brexit of their dreams then Ukip, or a new Brexit party, would need to stand for election and gain a majority of their own in Parliament. But in order to do that, they would need to produce a complete manifesto detailing their plans for every area of the economy, and society. The Brexiteers would never want to produce such a thing, nor do they have the ability to do so - so they try to infiltrate the Tories, like a cancer growth. Don't come on here claiming to be a Tory - because your only interest in the Party is the wish to take it over, along with the rest of your extremist friends. As long as you hold someone like Nigel Farage as a hero (someone who has said he wants to destroy the Conservative Party) then you cannot claim to represent grass roots Tory values.
 
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It's looking increasingly likely that the PM will be moved aside sooner rather than later. Any preferences guys?
 
Dan Starkey 2 said:
It's looking increasingly likely that the PM will be moved aside sooner rather than later. Any preferences guys?
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David Lidington has been holding talks with other parties about calling the whole thing off, taking a deep breath, and then stop and consider what is achievable, what isn't, before making any further moves. His viewpoint seems to be there is no point getting into a larger mess by ploughing on regardless. Clearly I prefer this reasoned approach, so he would be my choice.
 
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Is the one on the right the compromise candidate for PM that the ERG are putting forward?​
 
superhorns said:
May I remind you the only opposition to the Tories has lost 3 elections in a row and has failed to make any progress since the last election. Maybe your mystery political party is just around the corner? Perhaps a surprise LibDem revival, keep dreaming OFH.
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May I remind you, that by your definition, the Tories have won 1 of the last 6 (yes 6) elections. Also, as it is necessary to remind members of the delusional party, that they have only wonno more than half of the elections since 1964. Natural party of government ? rubbish. Party preferred by most voters ? Rubbish. Party with the most money ? yes. Party most accustomed to buying votes ? Yes.
 
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superhorns said:
It really is about time we raised the level of discussion about Brexit somewhat.

Watch – the Best Ever Song About Brexit… – Delingpole Worldhttps://delingpoleworld.com/2019/03/06/watch-the-best-ever-song-about-brexit/
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The "excellent" Dominic Frisby. I think it's safe to say I won't be asking Mr Delingpole if I can see his record collection any time soon. To be fair the musical output from remain has been equally dreadful. It's actually a sad indictment on the nation that such a massive event in our history has had such a paucity of decent output from the entertainment community. Contrast it with Thatcherism and it's found wanting desperately.
 
Although it changes by the hour, it would seem that the government is still in a state of gridlock, and more people within are talking about a GE as the only way out. If that were to happen a long delay would be inevitable.
 
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Well we have learnt almost for certain that the UK will not leave at the end of this month. The law is going to be changed this week.
We have also learnt that the government will not leave the EU without a deal. The PM also seems to accept that her deal will not pass and that it is the only deal, so how do we leave with these two conflicting statements?
 
“The Conservative party wants to stay in government and get councillors elected. The arguments in parliament could jeopardise that.”

These are notes written by Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary. very unusual as these are political statements where the civil service is excluded from such meetings.

This actually shows that while millions of people are worried about their future to work, study, live or work where it is best for them, the Tory party is worried about ensuring that they might lose seats on County Councils. So sad and quite awful!
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
“The Conservative party wants to stay in government and get councillors elected. The arguments in parliament could jeopardise that.”

These are notes written by Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary. very unusual as these are political statements where the civil service is excluded from such meetings.

This actually shows that while millions of people are worried about their future to work, study, live or work where it is best for them, the Tory party is worried about ensuring that they might lose seats on County Councils. So sad and quite awful!
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yep , that’s the type of system we’ve spawned/ inherited , no wonder Corbyn scares the **** out of them , he wants to end all that nepotism and gravy train that the whole thing relies on in rewarding toadies with gongs, money and positions of power......
 
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