Off Topic UK / EU Future

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Status
Not open for further replies.
oldfrenchhorn said:
So are you admitting that the government is not fine looking after the public services? You need to make that point clear. So rather than pay the Tory Brexit tax, you want the government to borrow more money. They have already taken a £12 billion hit today, but you seem to want to more.
Click to expand...

The Conservatives are clearly the best option to look after the country's finances and public services. They have done magnificently in removing much of the duplicated services and waste associated with public services, I have had lots of experience of dreadful waste in the NHS. This government obviously needs to borrow to make up shortfalls in income, hopefully they will continue to reform public services until waste is eliminated as much as possible.

They could do as the French do and let rioters and pressure groups decide on government policy but that is a recipe for anarchy.
 
So borrowing is preferable to you than paying a Tory Brexit Tax. It is time to stop talking about how others manage their finances when you are advocating exactly the same thing.
 
[QUOTE="oldfrenchhorn, post: 12386920, member: 1000816"]So borrowing is preferable to you than paying a Tory Brexit Tax. It is time to stop talking about how others manage their finances when you are advocating exactly the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Yes,

There is nothing wrong with borrowing, I've done a lot in my life. The trick is to make sure it is specific, low rate as possible and to have the ability to repay when required. This is how it should be.

I found myself with personal credit cards debts of £70k + once just to keep a business afloat, scary. Thankfully it worked out ok. :emoticon-0107-sweat
 
Good, so we all know now that you will not be trying to blame others who say that borrowing is required to provide basic public services.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Good, so we all know now that you will not be trying to blame others who say that borrowing is required to provide basic public services.
Click to expand...

This is just a continuation of UK and most western government policies for decades. There would be no call for a Brexit tax, you may have more luck with an NHS tax which is very popular with the public, although the government has just announced a massive increase in funding for the NHS.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I will make a suggestion that might concentrate a few minds. Instead of continuing to rob our public services of much needed money, let the government introduce a Brexit tax. It can be ring fenced so that every last penny raised will be spent on preparations. Let the public know that their hard earned taxes are going to providing the £ billions needed, but it will enable the government to restart funding in a proper way. No one who still supports leaving the EU can object to such a suggestion can they? This way services will be restored and they will still carry on preparing for whatever turns up. An extra 2p on income tax across the board would cover the £6.2 billion spent so far, and leave a bit for further planning.
Click to expand...
I said that during the referendum. If I thought a few pennies in the pound would have avoided this absolute catastrofuck I'd have been happy.
 
Hammond has admitted that extra funding for the NHS will have to be paid for by extra taxes. Council taxes will rise above inflation from next April. Additional police funding will rise through council tax bills as that is now charged as an additional item. Councils are now charging silly money on services that they can raise money from as SH was telling us recently. So the population are paying through different methods simply so the government can say it is a low tax party. Of course it is an illusion as the notion that all this cash for Brexit planning is freely available.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Hammond has admitted that extra funding for the NHS will have to be paid for by extra taxes. Council taxes will rise above inflation from next April. Additional police funding will rise through council tax bills as that is now charged as an additional item. Councils are now charging silly money on services that they can raise money from as SH was telling us recently. So the population are paying through different methods simply so the government can say it is a low tax party. Of course it is an illusion as the notion that all this cash for Brexit planning is freely available.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this but would add that funding is freely available by delaying the date of elimination of the deficit and increased borrowing. It is the stock answer open to most governments and sadly many individuals that want things they cannot really afford.

My personal view is to achieve Brexit with as smooth a transition as possible is worth some extra borrowing. I fully understand this borrowing could be perceived as non priority but like the vast sums spent on defence some non social spending is also necessary, in this case to reinforce democracy.
 
superhorns said:
I agree with most of this but would add that funding is freely available by delaying the date of elimination of the deficit and increased borrowing. It is the stock answer open to most governments and sadly many individuals that want things they cannot really afford.

My personal view is to achieve Brexit with as smooth a transition as possible is worth some extra borrowing. I fully understand this borrowing could be perceived as non priority but like the vast sums spent on defence some non social spending is also necessary, in this case to reinforce democracy.
Click to expand...

I am pleased to see that you are moving towards sensible government. You talk about a smooth transition, so therefore you must now be ruling out the possibility of departure without a deal. You cannot have one without the other. I do not quite see why when you wish to save money to be used on priority services, you suggest that the pooling of resources as done now with our EU partners is not a good idea, and we should try and fund it all by ourselves.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am pleased to see that you are moving towards sensible government. You talk about a smooth transition, so therefore you must now be ruling out the possibility of departure without a deal. You cannot have one without the other. I do not quite see why when you wish to save money to be used on priority services, you suggest that the pooling of resources as done now with our EU partners is not a good idea, and we should try and fund it all by ourselves.
Click to expand...

As there seems very little chance of a decent deal with the EU while they continue with their bullying tactics I consider the best, and only, option is to leave without a deal. The UK government will provide adequate finance to assist with as smooth a transition as possible. I have supported the Tories as the only sensible option for government since 2010.

A monumental democratic decision was taken by the people in 2016, the UK government is obliged to fully fund the costs within its fiscal planning. Even with the extra cost of Brexit the UK's borrowing will remain low compared to several major EU countries.
 
superhorns said:
As there seems very little chance of a decent deal with the EU while they continue with their bullying tactics I consider the best, and only, option is to leave without a deal. The UK government will provide adequate finance to assist with as smooth a transition as possible. I have supported the Tories as the only sensible option for government since 2010.

A monumental democratic decision was taken by the people in 2016, the UK government is obliged to fully fund the costs within its fiscal planning. Even with the extra cost of Brexit the UK's borrowing will remain low compared to several major EU countries.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what these bullying tactics are? Do you mean that the promises made by the Brexiteers are not possible if the EU is to protect the rules of the CU and SM. If you have a system that 27 countries do not wish to change, is it bullying for them to say no, it is you that wants to leave, so what are you proposing? The EU have given the UK something that no other country has, access to the CU to some degree, but do not forget that soon after the referendum people like Davis wanted something along the lines of the deal that Norway has until he found out that they had freedom of movement. The only transition the UK will get is one that suits the EU, eg they are talking about a limited bare bones deal to let some aircraft fly for 9 months from the UK to the EU. What has the UK said on just this one example? We are sure that something can be sorted out. I wouldn't bank on it with Grayling in charge.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Can you explain what these bullying tactics are? Do you mean that the promises made by the Brexiteers are not possible if the EU is to protect the rules of the CU and SM. If you have a system that 27 countries do not wish to change, is it bullying for them to say no, it is you that wants to leave, so what are you proposing? The EU have given the UK something that no other country has, access to the CU to some degree, but do not forget that soon after the referendum people like Davis wanted something along the lines of the deal that Norway has until he found out that they had freedom of movement. The only transition the UK will get is one that suits the EU, eg they are talking about a limited bare bones deal to let some aircraft fly for 9 months from the UK to the EU. What has the UK said on just this one example? We are sure that something can be sorted out. I wouldn't bank on it with Grayling in charge.
Click to expand...

I'm sure a threat to stop EU planes flying over UK territory will help a mutually beneficial deal emerge.
 
wear_yellow said:
The owners of Brittany Ferries will not be too happy either when their routes to the UK will be closed.
Click to expand...

Brittany Ferries have just opened a new route from Ireland to Spain, and are taking bookings for increased sailings between Ireland and France. I think they are organised.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Brittany Ferries have just opened a new route from Ireland to Spain, and are taking bookings for increased sailings between Ireland and France. I think they are organised.
Click to expand...
Excellent, less trucks on the UK roads the better - less congestion, less road wear & less polution.
Of course your response is just the normal whataboutery, routes to Ireland have nothing to do with the UK and sailing to Ireland from Spain will not help the economy of Brittany.
 
wear_yellow said:
Excellent, less trucks on the UK roads the better - less congestion, less road wear & less polution.
Of course your response is just the normal whataboutery, routes to Ireland have nothing to do with the UK and sailing to Ireland from Spain will not help the economy of Brittany.
Click to expand...

Currently most traffic from Ireland uses the UK as a bridge, entering in Wales and using either Dover or Portsmouth as an exit. If you go to Brittany as I do from time to time, you will see that most of the traffic does not come from France, but Spain and Portugal. Brittany Ferries started as a cooperative venture to send cauliflowers to the UK, but that accounts for a tiny percentage of the traffic these days. If less sailings leave for the UK it may well have some effect on the local economy, but if it does the same applies to Portsmouth.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Currently most traffic from Ireland uses the UK as a bridge, entering in Wales and using either Dover or Portsmouth as an exit. If you go to Brittany as I do from time to time, you will see that most of the traffic does not come from France, but Spain and Portugal. Brittany Ferries started as a cooperative venture to send cauliflowers to the UK, but that accounts for a tiny percentage of the traffic these days. If less sailings leave for the UK it may well have some effect on the local economy, but if it does the same applies to Portsmouth.
Click to expand...

The biggest effect of any disruption deliberately exacerbated by the French will be on the Pas de Calais region where unemployment is sky high. The local businesses will quickly remind the politicians of the likely damage caused locally.
 
superhorns said:
The biggest effect of any disruption deliberately exacerbated by the French will be on the Pas de Calais region where unemployment is sky high. The local businesses will quickly remind the politicians of the likely damage caused locally.
Click to expand...

There is no deliberate effort to slow traffic down in Calais, in fact exactly the opposite is happening. New holding areas and traffic lanes are already under construction. What new construction is taking place in Dover?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back