Off Topic UK / EU Future

[superhorns]

Meanwhile back in Brexit UK, it looks as if the deal to keep the whole country in a customs union is getting closer. It was obvious that this was the only option from very early days, yet still there are some who try to deny the truth that crashing out without a deal would be a disaster. BRINO is what it looks like, and the cult ERG members have been shown up to be toothless. Bring the PM down was their cry a couple of months ago, yet she still seems to have a higher profile than JRM. This group have been a thorn in the side of the Tory party for years, yet they have never had the guts to form their own party. John Majors description of them was accurate.

May's Chequers plan will be blocked by MPs, especially members of the ERG Group and the DUP, even if she can coerce the cabinet to sign it off. They will ensure a bad deal is not an option, she must back down on her unpopular plan. Meanwhile Corbyn has insisted the process of leaving the EU could not be halted. This is seen to rule out any support for a second referendum.

 

[Deleted.......]

May's Chequers plan will be blocked by MPs, especially members of the ERG Group and the DUP, even if she can coerce the cabinet to sign it off. They will ensure a bad deal is not an option, she must back down on her unpopular plan. Meanwhile Corbyn has insisted the process of leaving the EU could not be halted. This is seen to rule out any support for a second referendum.

At what point will you understand that any deal is a bad one. No country on the planet currently has better terms with the EU. If you think we'll ever improve what we have then you really are on another planet.

 

[superhorns]

At what point will you understand that any deal is a bad one. No country on the planet currently has better terms with the EU. If you think we'll ever improve what we have then you really are on another planet.

17.5 million voted to leave the EU for many reasons. If the UK is going to go through the hassle of leaving it needs to make sure it achieves many of the objectives that made the 2016 referendum the biggest democratic vote in UK history.

It is May and the misguided civil servants that appear to have come up with a plan that very few approve of, maybe they are not on this planet.

 

[andytoprankin]

Slightly tongue in cheek, but given the age-profiling of how people voted in the referendum, and how ‘natural wastage’ at the upper age may have shedded votes Anti, and how newer voters come in Pro at the lower age, given it would be at least two and a half years since the last vote, would the %s be different because of this, and is this a reason why wrinkled Antis want to avoid another vote?

Now that’s about as pithy a sentence as I can manage.

 

[superhorns]

Slightly tongue in cheek, but given the age-profiling of how people voted in the referendum, and how ‘natural wastage’ at the upper age may have shedded votes Anti, and how newer voters come in Pro at the lower age, given it would be at least two and a half years since the last vote, would the %s be different because of this, and is this a reason why wrinkled Antis want to avoid another vote?

Now that’s about as pithy a sentence as I can manage.

No, the deciding EU referendum was in 2016, just ask Jeremy.

It was NOT the usual EU model of 'keep the gullible proletariat voting' until they stumble across the correct decision.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Poor old SH. Stuck in a timewarp of a couple of years ago while the rest of the country moves on. It is about time that some in government showed that they are prepared to put country before party. Way too late for the cult figures of the right wing to influence things. Dump the DUP with their demands, postpone Brexit, hold a GE with the public told that there is no better deal than the one we currently have, and see what happens.

 

[andytoprankin]

No, the deciding EU referendum was in 2016, just ask Jeremy.

It was NOT the usual EU model of 'keep the gullible proletariat voting' until they stumble across the correct decision.

Whilst relying on defunct votes seems to be OK, could we revert to the 1945 General Election vote as we’re in the mood?

We might realise the renationalisation of the NHS for starters.

 

[superhorns]

Poor old SH. Stuck in a timewarp of a couple of years ago while the rest of the country moves on. It is about time that some in government showed that they are prepared to put country before party. Way too late for the cult figures of the right wing to influence things. Dump the DUP with their demands, postpone Brexit, hold a GE with the public told that there is no better deal than the one we currently have, and see what happens.

Your predictions have all gone wrong again, chuck out the crystal ball before it embarrasses you any further..

I'm off to Spain today to help alleviate poverty in one of the EU's victims of its failed experiment. I will do my best but I can only buy so many gin & tonics. !!!!

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Did I read that a government minister had resigned saying that the public should be given a second vote now that some of the facts, not fantasies, were known? I wonder what fantasies he was referring to?

 

[superhorns]

Did I read that a government minister had resigned saying that the public should be given a second vote now that some of the facts, not fantasies, were known? I wonder what fantasies he was referring to?

The main fantasies were the ridicules project fear stories which ended up, just like your many predictions, in the bin.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

The main fantasies were the ridicules project fear stories which ended up, just like your many predictions, in the bin.

Hardly a resigning matter surely. More likely to be something about frictionless trade, etc. that has been shown up as a fantasy. Maybe if the papers are to be believed more will follow. Time to realise that the truth is becoming unpalatable for the MPs who said it would be the "easiest thing in the world". Time to stand up and admit they were wrong, and they might get re-elected. Carry on in their dream world and the electorate will ensure they do not have a majority again come the next election.

 

[colognehornet]

Has Jeremy Corbyn just made the biggest mistake of his political career by ruling out a second referendum ? He says 'It cannot happen', as if there were some legal obstacle to it - as far as I know the EU. is open to the possibility, and to allowing time for this to happen if necessary. So how does Corbyn arrive at this conclusion ? He is in great risk of adding Momentum to his list of adversaries, together with the TUC, and most of the membership of the party, which, up to now, has been his main weapon in confronting the 'Blairite' faction. Through this step he takes the risk of turning the whole party against him. Any fly on the wall, or any neutral observer, would tell you that a second referendum is not only possible, but also essential if democracy is to be maintained. Firstly because the people must have the right to change their minds over an issue of this importance, secondly, the electorate has changed since the original referendum, and thirdly because the facts are slowly emerging. It would be fundamentally undemocratic for Britain to crash out of the EU. at a time when the majority, in the country, is against it. If Corbyn does not bend on this then he is finished in politics.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Has Jeremy Corbyn just made the biggest mistake of his political career by ruling out a second referendum ? He says 'It cannot happen', as if there were some legal obstacle to it - as far as I know the EU. is open to the possibility, and to allowing time for this to happen if necessary. So how does Corbyn arrive at this conclusion ? He is in great risk of adding Momentum to his list of adversaries, together with the TUC, and most of the membership of the party, which, up to now, has been his main weapon in confronting the 'Blairite' faction. Through this step he takes the risk of turning the whole party against him. Any fly on the wall, or any neutral observer, would tell you that a second referendum is not only possible, but also essential if democracy is to be maintained. Firstly because the people must have the right to change their minds over an issue of this importance, secondly, the electorate has changed since the original referendum, and thirdly because the facts are slowly emerging. It would be fundamentally undemocratic for Britain to crash out of the EU. at a time when the majority, in the country, is against it. If Corbyn does not bend on this then he is finished in politics.

I agree with this 100%. I watch and listen to his comments and wonder why if he ever wishes to become PM he continues to go against the clear wishes of his party. In many ways if you look back over his record in parliament he has always been a loner, not really a leader. He came to power in his party on the basis that he wanted a mass movement of members who would call the shots, yet now seems to be ignoring them. All a big mistake!

 

[superhorns]

Has Jeremy Corbyn just made the biggest mistake of his political career by ruling out a second referendum ? He says 'It cannot happen', as if there were some legal obstacle to it - as far as I know the EU. is open to the possibility, and to allowing time for this to happen if necessary. So how does Corbyn arrive at this conclusion ? He is in great risk of adding Momentum to his list of adversaries, together with the TUC, and most of the membership of the party, which, up to now, has been his main weapon in confronting the 'Blairite' faction. Through this step he takes the risk of turning the whole party against him. Any fly on the wall, or any neutral observer, would tell you that a second referendum is not only possible, but also essential if democracy is to be maintained. Firstly because the people must have the right to change their minds over an issue of this importance, secondly, the electorate has changed since the original referendum, and thirdly because the facts are slowly emerging. It would be fundamentally undemocratic for Britain to crash out of the EU. at a time when the majority, in the country, is against it. If Corbyn does not bend on this then he is finished in politics.

Just like the vast majority of MPs who have supported Brexit throughout the leaving process Corbyn understands democracy and the importance of keeping faith with the electorate. The 2016 referendum was the deciding factor, anything less than leaving the EU would seriously undermine the Uk's democratic system and any confidence in UK politicians.

There is no chance of another referendum on the EU for many many years. By the time it is resurrected the EU will be fragmented and unrecognisable compared to the present set up.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Just like the vast majority of MPs who have supported Brexit throughout the leaving process Corbyn understands democracy and the importance of keeping faith with the electorate. The 2016 referendum was the deciding factor, anything less than leaving the EU would seriously undermine the Uk's democratic system and any confidence in UK politicians.

There is no chance of another referendum on the EU for many many years. By the time it is resurrected the EU will be fragmented and unrecognisable compared to the present set up.

Of course the EU will change, just as the UK and any other country you like to name will change. There is a huge risk however that the UK is going to change in a regressive way, not a forward way. It is those who resist change and want to live as they did years ago who are holding the country back. Cooperation with others has been shown as the way forward, not pulling the drawbridge up and believing that you are different and special.

 

[colognehornet]

Just like the vast majority of MPs who have supported Brexit throughout the leaving process Corbyn understands democracy and the importance of keeping faith with the electorate. The 2016 referendum was the deciding factor, anything less than leaving the EU would seriously undermine the Uk's democratic system and any confidence in UK politicians.

There is no chance of another referendum on the EU for many many years. By the time it is resurrected the EU will be fragmented and unrecognisable compared to the present set up.

How many MPs actually supported Brexit during the referendum SH. and how many support a hard Brexit now ? No more than a hard core of about 50 MPs who are trying to hold the country to ransom. There is not a majority for hard Brexit either in Parliament or amongst the electorate. This minority is hoping that they will achieve their ends by simple sabotage ie. voting against anything which May comes up with, but nonetheless keeping her in power like a lame duck - hoping that we will run out of time, and simply crash out without a deal. Unfortunately Corbyn, through his obstinacy, is helping them in this.

 

[superhorns]

How many MPs actually supported Brexit during the referendum SH. and how many support a hard Brexit now ? No more than a hard core of about 50 MPs who are trying to hold the country to ransom. There is not a majority for hard Brexit either in Parliament or amongst the electorate. This minority is hoping that they will achieve their ends by simple sabotage ie. voting against anything which May comes up with, but nonetheless keeping her in power like a lame duck - hoping that we will run out of time, and simply crash out without a deal. Unfortunately Corbyn, through his obstinacy, is helping them in this.

An overwhelming number of MPs supported Brexit from initially activating article 50 and right through the stages in parliament because they believe in UK democracy.

Off to airport now, hope May's poor Chequers proposal is history by next week.

 

[colognehornet]

An overwhelming number of MPs supported Brexit from initially activating article 50 and right through the stages in parliament because they believe in UK democracy.

Off to airport now, hope May's poor Chequers proposal is history by next week.

Flying off somewhere again SH ? What about your personal Co2 footprint ?

 

[andytoprankin]

Flying off somewhere again SH ? What about your personal Co2 footprint ?

Isn’t most of that hot air?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Isn’t most of that hot air?

I believe he has a cheap deal with Montgolfiere Airways.