Off Topic UK / EU Future

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superhorns said:
Do you mean high unemployment, low growth and abject poverty currently experienced in some EU countries?
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And what you refuse to acknowledge is that we're doing so well BECAUSE we're in the EU, not despite it.

Even your hero Rees-Mogg says we're going to be worse off for decades. I know you get your kicks from winding people up on here, it would help if you actually tried to debate on the so-called merits of Brexit rather than spouting constant soundbites.
 
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superhorns said:
Wanting the UK to be in the same position as the majority of countries around the world is not only sensible but a fundamental basic right. The EU is in great danger of imploding due to Italy's insistence its sovereignty is being challenged by Brussels. The eurocrat's project is increasingly being seem as a failure, just a matter of time before the UK is joined out of the door with other disillusioned members.
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There you are wrong SH. The majority of countries in the World are members of trading blocks of some description, modelled on the EU. These blocks are also based on geographical proximity between countries.
 
Toby said:
And what you refuse to acknowledge is that we're doing so well BECAUSE we're in the EU, not despite it.

Even your hero Rees-Mogg says we're going to be worse off for decades. I know you get your kicks from winding people up on here, it would help if you actually tried to debate on the so-called merits of Brexit rather than spouting constant soundbites.
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pointless engaging with him IMO Toby.. he gets his thrills from winding others up.....
 
colognehornet said:
There you are wrong SH. The majority of countries in the World are members of trading blocks of some description, modelled on the EU. These blocks are also based on geographical proximity between countries.
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We used to be a member of a trading block until they ruined it by taking away sovereignty. These other countries have the ability to control their own borders.etc. We can still trade with the EU after Brexit as others do.
 
superhorns said:
We used to be a member of a trading block until they ruined it by taking away sovereignty. These other countries have the ability to control their own borders.etc. We can still trade with the EU after Brexit as others do.
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There is only one country in the World which has full sovereignty over it's affairs SH. and that is North Korea. In the modern, rational, democratic (I know that those words are new to you) World, countries recognize that sharing some sovereignty actually increases their power. The EU. was always about pooled sovereignty, from its inception, and Harold Macmillan knew this when he wanted to join in 1962 - it appears that some have still not understood this fact.
 
colognehornet said:
There is only one country in the World which has full sovereignty over it's affairs SH. and that is North Korea. In the modern, rational, democratic (I know that those words are new to you) World, countries recognize that sharing some sovereignty actually increases their power. The EU. was always about pooled sovereignty, from its inception, and Harold Macmillan knew this when he wanted to join in 1962 - it appears that some have still not understood this fact.
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You have obviously failed to understand or appreciate the treaties that have eroded the UK's sovereignty since we joined the common market.
 
Hollande still breaking unpopularity records in France, now 70% think he is rubbish. 29% think he is ok, the last 1% still undecided!!!
 
So Fox finally admits that you cannot just roll over WTO tariff schedules after two dozen countries have objected. Individual discussions will have to be carried out with each country, which is likely to take about four years for each one providing the country can find enough people to do them. It was all going to be so simple!
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
So Fox finally admits that you cannot just roll over WTO tariff schedules after two dozen countries have objected. Individual discussions will have to be carried out with each country, which is likely to take about four years for each one providing the country can find enough people to do them. It was all going to be so simple!
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As usual you give a distorted view, you should have supplied the rest of the information in the article which stated the UK will be able to trade on a provisional set of schedules while it negotiates. It would help if you could give a balanced truthful report rather than carefully pick only negatives.
 
superhorns said:
As usual you give a distorted view, you should have supplied the rest of the information in the article which stated the UK will be able to trade on a provisional set of schedules while it negotiates. It would help if you could give a balanced truthful report rather than carefully pick only negatives.
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I think you will find that Fox said all the country had to do was roll over the tariffs and schedules, and they would take effect as soon as the UK left the EU. You have just confirmed that this is not the case. I dare say if I went back I could find you saying that because Fox said it, it must be true. You can wriggle as much as you like, but you have supported all these nonsense statements from before the referendum.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
I think you will find that Fox said all the country had to do was roll over the tariffs and schedules, and they would take effect as soon as the UK left the EU. You have just confirmed that this is not the case. I dare say if I went back I could find you saying that because Fox said it, it must be true. You can wriggle as much as you like, but you have supported all these nonsense statements from before the referendum.
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After being caught out taking information out of context you are now fabricating stories, desperate stuff.
 
In November 2017, in oral evidence to the International Trade Select Committee, the International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said that the Government was seeking transitional adoption of existing EU trade agreements to provide “a technical replication of the conditions that exist today, so that there is no disruption at the point at which we leave the European Union.”

In oral evidence to the International Trade Select Committee on 11 July 2018, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said that the UK Government had “an agreement in principle with all those we have had discussions with” in terms of continuing trade with third countries on the same basis as in their existing agreements with the EU.

Now we find out that should there be no agreement, and the UK has to fall back onto WTO rules, agree schedules with each country, that one of the first to object to the proposed schedules is the USA, closely followed by Australia and New Zealand. If you read the official reports you will find that Fox didn't even know how many deals existed and how many countries he would have to negotiate with, which deals were mixed deals, and which were not.

Like Davis who believed he could do deals with individual EU countries, the promises have proved to be untrue. You cannot roll over existing WTO rules held by the EU to become simply UK rules, anymore that existing trading partnerships held by the EU on behalf of the UK can simply be rolled over.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
In November 2017, in oral evidence to the International Trade Select Committee, the International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said that the Government was seeking transitional adoption of existing EU trade agreements to provide “a technical replication of the conditions that exist today, so that there is no disruption at the point at which we leave the European Union.”

In oral evidence to the International Trade Select Committee on 11 July 2018, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said that the UK Government had “an agreement in principle with all those we have had discussions with” in terms of continuing trade with third countries on the same basis as in their existing agreements with the EU.

Now we find out that should there be no agreement, and the UK has to fall back onto WTO rules, agree schedules with each country, that one of the first to object to the proposed schedules is the USA, closely followed by Australia and New Zealand. If you read the official reports you will find that Fox didn't even know how many deals existed and how many countries he would have to negotiate with, which deals were mixed deals, and which were not.

Like Davis who believed he could do deals with individual EU countries, the promises have proved to be untrue. You cannot roll over existing WTO rules held by the EU to become simply UK rules, anymore that existing trading partnerships held by the EU on behalf of the UK can simply be rolled over.
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The bit you fabricated was wrongly stating because Fox said something that I said it must be true.

It is a fact that because we are currently aligned with the EU then it is naturally much easier to reach agreement, with the EU and those countries the EU currently has an agreement with. The UK will trade comfortably on uncertified schedules after Brexit as the EU has done for years. The Institute of Directors head of Europe and Trade has described your perceived problem as a storm in a teacup, try again for a real negative.
 
I thought that you aligned yourself with the leaders of the Brexit cult of which Fox is a leading member. However if that is not the case, perhaps you can tell us where he has got it wrong.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I thought that you aligned yourself with the leaders of the Brexit cult of which Fox is a leading member. However if that is not the case, perhaps you can tell us where he has got it wrong.
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I very much support those leading figures on the leave side. Fox was right to point out the UK's present alignment would make agreements much easier than those starting from scratch. Where you have got it wrong is failing to fully understand WTO rules. The UK will be able to trade successfully under WTO rules once we leave the EU on uncertified schedules.
 
superhorns said:
I very much support those leading figures on the leave side. Fox was right to point out the UK's present alignment would make agreements much easier than those starting from scratch. Where you have got it wrong is failing to fully understand WTO rules. The UK will be able to trade successfully under WTO rules once we leave the EU on uncertified schedules.
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How long will this take?
 
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