Off Topic UK / EU Future

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superhorns said:
The UK government used the same method on the UK's membership as was previously employed, much less whinging on process back in 1975, I wonder why?'.
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Hmm. Perhaps it was because there was more than a 2 to 1 vote in favour.
This time it was nearly 50-50. The country has been irreparably split by taking a foolish leap into the dark based on such a slender majority. No other countries allow major constitutional change to occur on such slender majorities.
 
There are increasing reports of France being the main objector to any of the UK's ideas on a new trade agreement with the EU after Brexit. Is Macron prepared to add thousands to his already rising unemployment level?. Does he care about ordinary people, most in France think not.
 
superhorns said:
desperate stuff blaming the media, the anti Semitic bad press is also self inflicted according to Labour MPs.
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Not desparate SH. Almost every time I look at the BBC site I see the flames being fanned further in an attempt to damage Corbyn and stifle legitimate criticism of Israel. We see that a special ''Code on anti-Semitism'' has been created which, in some way deviates from the Holocaust Memorial version. Apparently a state which has a ''Segregated road network'', a ''dual justice system'' and the idea of a ''Jewish Nation State'' which entrenches ethnic equality in law, cannot be described as ''racist'' - apparently doing so opens up the charge of also being called a racist. Corbyn has visited left wing Jewish groups (and was apparently seen as affronting the mainstream in doing so) which proves that he is not anti semitic on a racial level. We need to finally ask 2 questions:
1. Why is every criticism of Israel or radical Zionism viewed as being anti-Semitic ?
and
2. Why do we have a special ''Code on Anti-Semitism'' which is different from general laws regarding racial discrimination. Thereby implying that Jews need extra protections which eg. Gypsies do not enjoy.

Are we not allowed to call the Apartheid of the Israeli government racist ? If a blue eyed and blond German state were to arise which considered nation and ethnic origins as an organic whole and practiced segregation practices against all others then there would be no shortage of people criticizing it, and quite rightly so.
 
superhorns said:
A no deal will deliver the previously acknowledged benefits of Brexit. No large sums going to Brussels, control of borders, end to mass immigration and sovereignty.
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No deal would be a complete disaster and offers absolutely zero benefits. The idea that this is what people voted for is absolute piffle. The polls show that a no deal Brexit is clearly not what people want, and if it becomes a case of that being the only option left then democracy would not be served by ploughing on regardless. If that’s how it pans out it should be put back to the electorate to decide.
 
superhorns said:
Disagree. Do you think the UK will want to allow thousands of Romanian gypsies in after Brexit? Until Brexit we have no choice on who enters the UK.
How can you say we have sovereignty when the ECJ has the final say? Not my kind of sovereignty.
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We’ll control our borders in exactly the same way as we do now. EU citizens with a passport will be allowed entry.

A final say on what? What ECJ decision do you most object to?
 
colognehornet said:
Not desparate SH. Almost every time I look at the BBC site I see the flames being fanned further in an attempt to damage Corbyn and stifle legitimate criticism of Israel. We see that a special ''Code on anti-Semitism'' has been created which, in some way deviates from the Holocaust Memorial version. Apparently a state which has a ''Segregated road network'', a ''dual justice system'' and the idea of a ''Jewish Nation State'' which entrenches ethnic equality in law, cannot be described as ''racist'' - apparently doing so opens up the charge of also being called a racist. Corbyn has visited left wing Jewish groups (and was apparently seen as affronting the mainstream in doing so) which proves that he is not anti semitic on a racial level. We need to finally ask 2 questions:
1. Why is every criticism of Israel or radical Zionism viewed as being anti-Semitic ?
and
2. Why do we have a special ''Code on Anti-Semitism'' which is different from general laws regarding racial discrimination. Thereby implying that Jews need extra protections which eg. Gypsies do not enjoy.

Are we not allowed to call the Apartheid of the Israeli government racist ? If a blue eyed and blond German state were to arise which considered nation and ethnic origins as an organic whole and practiced segregation practices against all others then there would be no shortage of people criticizing it, and quite rightly so.
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Well put.... all sadly orchestrated to keep Corbyn and the Labour Party in check.

What the Israelis are allowed to get away with as part of this Middle East strategy is beyond belief...
 
Tobes said:
We’ll control our borders in exactly the same way as we do now. EU citizens with a passport will be allowed entry.

A final say on what? What ECJ decision do you most object to?
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After Brexit EU citizens will not have an automatic right to reside in the UK, surely you know that?

Any ECJ decision that overrides UK law is not acceptable.
 
superhorns said:
After Brexit EU citizens will not have an automatic right to reside in the UK, surely you know that?

Any ECJ decision that overrides UK law is not acceptable.
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Not true SH.

Firstly, under the draft agreement EU residents will have protected Status
Secondly, under the UDHR which the UK is a signatory residents under a historic agreement are entitled to have continued rights of residency


Nothing much will change regarding residency in real terms...all smoke and mirrors by Brexiters....
 
superhorns said:
After Brexit EU citizens will not have an automatic right to reside in the UK, surely you know that?

Any ECJ decision that overrides UK law is not acceptable.
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They’ll have the same rights of entry and who’s going to track their exit? As we’ve not bothered even trying to uphold our rights in this area before.

Name one that has directly lead to your issue with the ECJ?
 
It says a lot when you read the long awaited Immigration Bill is unlikely to see the light of day before the end of this year or the beginning of next. Suspicion is that a special deal for EU citizens giving them free movement except in name will be offered as a means of getting a deal. By the time this Bill arrives it will be too late to change matters.
 
Leo said:
well it will have been somewhat milder than if she had confused him with being English
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He's a bit of an oddball for an Irishman- likes the English more than the Welsh. Years of playing rugby I guess!

As an aside my favourite joke during the world cup was: two Limerick men sitting in a bar and one asked the other if he'd ever cheer for England. "absolutely - if they were playing Tipperary"
 
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superhorns said:
desperate stuff blaming the media, the anti Semitic bad press is also self inflicted according to Labour MPs.
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I'm not sure how this gets into a thread on the EU - we do wander off topic :)
Personally though I do not see either Labour or Corbyn as being anti-semitic. However for sheer pragmatism Labour should have adopted the IHRA code in full. What on earth were they doing making themselves stand out from dozens if not hundreds of organisations that have adopted the code. If they wanted a row this was the way to get it.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It says a lot when you read the long awaited Immigration Bill is unlikely to see the light of day before the end of this year or the beginning of next. Suspicion is that a special deal for EU citizens giving them free movement except in name will be offered as a means of getting a deal. By the time this Bill arrives it will be too late to change matters.
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The current situation with Brexit legislation is bordering on catastrophic. It's pretty much all been drafted but the Government is terrified to share it with Scotland, and Wales and NI because it all gets watered down and the Parliamentary arithmetic just doesn't add up.

There's a huge backlog so goodness knows how it's going to get sorted. Given the severity of the situation I would have cut the summer break short.
 
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Tobes said:
They’ll have the same rights of entry and who’s going to track their exit? As we’ve not bothered even trying to uphold our rights in this area before.

Name one that has directly lead to your issue with the ECJ?
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All and every occasions where the ECJ override the UK is unacceptable. To have control of one's own laws is a right enjoyed by the vast majority of countries in the world, not much to ask for really.
 
Leo said:
I'm not sure how this gets into a thread on the EU - we do wander off topic :)
Personally though I do not see either Labour or Corbyn as being anti-semitic. However for sheer pragmatism Labour should have adopted the IHRA code in full. What on earth were they doing making themselves stand out from dozens if not hundreds of organisations that have adopted the code. If they wanted a row this was the way to get it.
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Even McDonell is now criticising Corbyn's stance on the anti Semitic row, what a shambles.
 
Leo said:
Hmm. Perhaps it was because there was more than a 2 to 1 vote in favour.
This time it was nearly 50-50. The country has been irreparably split by taking a foolish leap into the dark based on such a slender majority. No other countries allow major constitutional change to occur on such slender majorities.
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I'm quite happy to let the UK's elected government decide the method based very much on the previous occasion. The whinging should have been before the referendum not after.
 
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