Off Topic UK / EU Future

[NZHorn]

I was in Ieper (Ypers) yesterday and got chatting to a chap who had been in the RAF for 40 years. I had seen him earlier in the day at Tyne Cot. I asked him various questions about his trip and he wondered whether young men today would fight in a war as they had in the Great War.

He then got onto Brexit and I was shocked and somewhat uncomfortable with his comments. He believes that the UK is the only country stopping Merkel's attempt to create the Fourth Reich out of the EU; only the UK and Germany keep the EU afloat but Germany has had a policy maneuvering the poorer EU countries to be debt dependent on Germany; the European army is a way for Germany to get around the military restrictions imposed on it; and Merkel has allowed dangerous Middle-Eastern refugees to come in in an attempt to destabalise other EU countries ( he did admit that some of the refugees may be genuine). I have no idea whether he is for or against Brexit. He also said that there had been no increase in nationalism in the UK since the referendum. I think he was disappointed in that,

I know that he is only one person, but I had not heard such anti-German feeling before. SH only comments on France but not with the same negative vehemence that this chap described Germany. To be honest he was quite scary because if his level of feeling is common in the UK it does not bode well for the country whatever the outcome of the Brexit process.

 

[superhorns]

It's not a measly £25 for people who may be in work and still can not afford it. Sure - they can give up family days out etc. but why should they? Not everyone can be successful but it's not great to think they should have to choose between books for school and a day at the zoo.

Perhaps the choice is between spending money on their child's education or booze, takeaways, ***s, tattoos, 8th pair of trainers. There are choices in life and people should take full responsibility, not look to the government to always nanny them.

I see full pubs and restaurants, the gambling companies are making a fortune out of people that often cannot afford to lose any money. I expect many children are suffering because of their parents bad choice of priorities.

 

[superhorns]

I was in Ieper (Ypers) yesterday and got chatting to a chap who had been in the RAF for 40 years. I had seen him earlier in the day at Tyne Cot. I asked him various questions about his trip and he wondered whether young men today would fight in a war as they had in the Great War.

He then got onto Brexit and I was shocked and somewhat uncomfortable with his comments. He believes that the UK is the only country stopping Merkel's attempt to create the Fourth Reich out of the EU; only the UK and Germany keep the EU afloat but Germany has had a policy maneuvering the poorer EU countries to be debt dependent on Germany; the European army is a way for Germany to get around the military restrictions imposed on it; and Merkel has allowed dangerous Middle-Eastern refugees to come in in an attempt to destabalise other EU countries ( he did admit that some of the refugees may be genuine). I have no idea whether he is for or against Brexit. He also said that there had been no increase in nationalism in the UK since the referendum. I think he was disappointed in that,

I know that he is only one person, but I had not heard such anti-German feeling before. SH only comments on France but not with the same negative vehemence that this chap described Germany. To be honest he was quite scary because if his level of feeling is common in the UK it does not bode well for the country whatever the outcome of the Brexit process.

I'm not sure why anybody would be shocked at the suggestion that the EU is run by, and for the benefit of Germany. Despite the appearance of democracy nothing moves forward unless it is sanctioned by Merkel. Her decision to open the floodgates to a million plus mainly economic migrants was taken without consideration of any views of other member states.

 

[colognehornet]

I was in Ieper (Ypers) yesterday and got chatting to a chap who had been in the RAF for 40 years. I had seen him earlier in the day at Tyne Cot. I asked him various questions about his trip and he wondered whether young men today would fight in a war as they had in the Great War.

He then got onto Brexit and I was shocked and somewhat uncomfortable with his comments. He believes that the UK is the only country stopping Merkel's attempt to create the Fourth Reich out of the EU; only the UK and Germany keep the EU afloat but Germany has had a policy maneuvering the poorer EU countries to be debt dependent on Germany; the European army is a way for Germany to get around the military restrictions imposed on it; and Merkel has allowed dangerous Middle-Eastern refugees to come in in an attempt to destabalise other EU countries ( he did admit that some of the refugees may be genuine). I have no idea whether he is for or against Brexit. He also said that there had been no increase in nationalism in the UK since the referendum. I think he was disappointed in that,

I know that he is only one person, but I had not heard such anti-German feeling before. SH only comments on France but not with the same negative vehemence that this chap described Germany. To be honest he was quite scary because if his level of feeling is common in the UK it does not bode well for the country whatever the outcome of the Brexit process.

There is a subcurrent of anti German feeling in England NZ. Partly I believe that many older people in England are nostalgic about the War years - possibly because it was the last time that Britons stood together with a common goal, and were all prepared to make sacrifices for it. Hence the nostalgia. There are many people in England (I say England here because the Scots are often different on this) whose idea of Germany is frozen in the year 1945. I now have German nationality and speak only German in my everyday life - and have often been in the UK. with German people, and I do not change languages at the borders. This has been an eye opener because many British people have mistaken me for German as a result. I am not going to speak German with Mrs Colognehornet here, and suddenly change that according to geographical location. My father spent the last 20 years of his life at the Royal Military Hospital in Chelsea and we were very often visitors there - amongst the same people who had made such sacrifices all those years ago, yet there I didn't experience the same. Many of these people had served in Germany at some time and genuinely liked the place. The problems arose in rural leafy England, and often with younger people.

It appears strange to me that Germany can be so cosmopolitan now - with millions of Poles living here. I also know Russian Jews living here. How is it that these 2 groups (who suffered more than any others) can forgive, yet so many English people can't ? I don't know what people expect from Germany. Did they expect the country to remain on its knees after World War 2 and need permanent help from the West ? Do they expect Germany to be the largest payer into the EU. yet have no influence in how that money is spent ? Germany was against the introduction of the Euro, and only accepted it as a result of Mitterand's conditions for the reunification of Germany. So to say that Germany used the currency to secure it's own dominance is laughable. What do these people want ? Do they want that Germany slows down and also becomes a liability case ? On the whole Germany is not so much interested in further integration, or European armies - these ideas come more from Macron. But a person who has served for 40 years in the RAF. lives in a bubble - surrounded only by ideas which support his own narrow view, and not much can change that.

 

[colognehornet]

I'm not sure why anybody would be shocked at the suggestion that the EU is run by, and for the benefit of Germany. Despite the appearance of democracy nothing moves forward unless it is sanctioned by Merkel. Her decision to open the floodgates to a million plus mainly economic migrants was taken without consideration of any views of other member states.

The record's stuck again !

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Clearly the ex-RAF man is of a certain age, and we see that the greatest resistance against the EU comes from the Tory party members who we know are from the same generation. I have no idea why they want to live in the past, it doesn't resonate with me at all. I know many teenagers and people in their twenties who are horrified at the behaviour of this aged group, and I join with them, although I am of that older age group. I do remember the years just after the second world war, and life was very difficult for the majority of the population, yet it seems that the older members of society want to return to those days. Speak to the younger people and they wish to co-operate with other countries, travel around, live, work or love where they want to, not be stuck on an insular island. All countries have their faults and problems, but for some reason the English, and I make the same distinction as cologne here, have been sold the idea that they are above such things, and if you cut yourself off from your neighbours, you will be in some sunlit upland forever.

 

[superhorns]

Clearly the ex-RAF man is of a certain age, and we see that the greatest resistance against the EU comes from the Tory party members who we know are from the same generation. I have no idea why they want to live in the past, it doesn't resonate with me at all. I know many teenagers and people in their twenties who are horrified at the behaviour of this aged group, and I join with them, although I am of that older age group. I do remember the years just after the second world war, and life was very difficult for the majority of the population, yet it seems that the older members of society want to return to those days. Speak to the younger people and they wish to co-operate with other countries, travel around, live, work or love where they want to, not be stuck on an insular island. All countries have their faults and problems, but for some reason the English, and I make the same distinction as cologne here, have been sold the idea that they are above such things, and if you cut yourself off from your neighbours, you will be in some sunlit upland forever.

Rubbish, Brexit is about forging new relationships with countries around the world without being shackled by being part of a restrictive trading group. The vast majority of countries around the world enjoy this basic freedom sought by those that want to break free from control by Brussels. The faults in the EU project are too serious to try to mend. Many member states, especially those in Southern Europe would prosper much better outside of the EU if only they could find the courage so admirable showed by the British.

 

[colognehornet]

Rubbish, Brexit is about forging new relationships with countries around the world without being shackled by being part of a restrictive trading group. The vast majority of countries around the world enjoy this basic freedom sought by those that want to break free from control by Brussels. The faults in the EU project are too serious to try to mend. Many member states, especially those in Southern Europe would prosper much better outside of the EU if only they could find the courage so admirable showed by the British.

The vast majority of countries of the World are members of trade blocs SH. Even by 1997 more than 50% of all World commerce was conducted within regional trade blocs. Members of successfull trade blocs usually share common traits - geographical proximity, similar or compatible trading regimes, and political commitment to regional organization. The World outside is not full of lone sharks as you appear to imply. Similar organizations to the EU. exist in the Americas, Asia, Middle East, and Africa. There are a couple of countries with the complete sovereignty you dream of - North Korea springs to mind.

 

[superhorns]

The vast majority of countries of the World are members of trade blocs SH. Even by 1997 more than 50% of all World commerce was conducted within regional trade blocs. Members of successfull trade blocs usually share common traits - geographical proximity, similar or compatible trading regimes, and political commitment to regional organization. The World outside is not full of lone sharks as you appear to imply. Similar organizations to the EU. exist in the Americas, Asia, Middle East, and Africa. There are a couple of countries with the complete sovereignty you dream of - North Korea springs to mind.

It is well within the UK's capabilities to join other trade blocks without being forced to lose control of our borders. There is no geographical reason why trade agreements with the U.K. cannot be extremely successful. Trump is itching to rectify the present trade imbalance the US has with the EU, he really only wants to get tough once the UK leaves. Germany and France will soon be in recession.

 

[colognehornet]

It is well within the UK's capabilities to join other trade blocks without being forced to lose control of our borders. There is no geographical reason why trade agreements with the U.K. cannot be extremely successful. Trump is itching to rectify the present trade imbalance the US has with the EU, he really only wants to get tough once the UK leaves. Germany and France will soon be in recession.

So, you see the future as jumping into bed with uncle Donald across the pond. Jumping into trade agreements with countries which have a dramatic trade imbalance and who see such an arrangement only as a way of offloading their products on someone.

 

[superhorns]

So, you see the future as jumping into bed with uncle Donald across the pond. Jumping into trade agreements with countries which have a dramatic trade imbalance and who see such an arrangement only as a way of offloading their products on someone.

The US is obviously one of many. I have no objection to a trade deal with the EU as long as normal conditions apply. Uncontrolled free movement is not negotiable.

 

[Scullion]

I'm not sure why anybody would be shocked at the suggestion that the EU is run by, and for the benefit of Germany. Despite the appearance of democracy nothing moves forward unless it is sanctioned by Merkel. Her decision to open the floodgates to a million plus mainly economic migrants was taken without consideration of any views of other member states.

I am not sure who else it is run by as no other nation (except the UK) has the economic clout. I have thought for a while that Germany is winning WW3 without guns. You have to remember that those who fought in the 2 world wars are not especially keen on Germany and have long painful memories.

 

[colognehornet]

I am not sure who else it is run by as no other nation (except the UK) has the economic clout. I have thought for a while that Germany is winning WW3 without guns. You have to remember that those who fought in the 2 world wars are not especially keen on Germany and have long painful memories.

The EU. is not 'run' by anyone Scullion. Any combination of 2 countries can outvote Germany at any time in the EU Parliament. They are hardly represented on the EU side of the Brexit negotiating team and are underrepresented in the EU Commission. They make up 17% of the population of the EU. and account for 22% of the budget payments. It is pure paranoia to suggest they want to 'run' anything, and, in fact, they have had more than their hands full with reintegrating the former GDR into a combined Germany, without the added hassle of adopting a leadership role in the EU. You can talk about long and painfull memories, yet how is it that people like the Poles (who suffered far more than the UK did) can forgive, yet so many English people can't.

 

[superhorns]

The EU. is not 'run' by anyone Scullion. Any combination of 2 countries can outvote Germany at any time in the EU Parliament. They are hardly represented on the EU side of the Brexit negotiating team and are underrepresented in the EU Commission. They make up 17% of the population of the EU. and account for 22% of the budget payments. It is pure paranoia to suggest they want to 'run' anything, and, in fact, they have had more than their hands full with reintegrating the former GDR into a combined Germany, without the added hassle of adopting a leadership role in the EU. You can talk about long and painfull memories, yet how is it that people like the Poles (who suffered far more than the UK did) can forgive, yet so many English people can't.

Cologne's figures may be true but in practice nothing is ever agreed unless sanctioned by the Germans. They dominate the European Central Bank. This is why a visit to grovel to Merkel is the ultimate test. Trump firmly has Germany in his sights, it would not be a bad thing to work towards reducing this domination. France is quite happy to play the lapdog if titbits continue to be thrown its way. Macron has tried several times to take a lead but keeps being put back in his subordinate place.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I am not sure who else it is run by as no other nation (except the UK) has the economic clout. I have thought for a while that Germany is winning WW3 without guns. You have to remember that those who fought in the 2 world wars are not especially keen on Germany and have long painful memories.

By my reckoning you would have to be approaching 90 or older to have fought in WWII and I cannot see any are likely to be alive who fought in WWI. This is a very small band of people. My wife's grandfather fought in WWI and returned in the 1920's to see what it was like under more normal circumstances. He found the people friendly and welcoming, and fully intended to go back until ill health prevented him.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

By my reckoning you would have to be approaching 90 or older to have fought in WWII and I cannot see any are likely to be alive who fought in WWI. This is a very small band of people. My wife's grandfather fought in WWI and returned in the 1920's to see what it was like under more normal circumstances. He found the people friendly and welcoming, and fully intended to go back until ill health prevented him.

My step dad next door neighbour in Spain was a u boat officer who at the end of the war had been commanded to take Nazi acquired treasures to South America. Peace was declared and they surrendered to the USA. A very interesting and kind man who later became a senior director of the Siemens group.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

 

[Hornet-Fez]

jesus f*****g christ!

 

[Scullion]

The EU. is not 'run' by anyone Scullion. Any combination of 2 countries can outvote Germany at any time in the EU Parliament. They are hardly represented on the EU side of the Brexit negotiating team and are underrepresented in the EU Commission. They make up 17% of the population of the EU. and account for 22% of the budget payments. It is pure paranoia to suggest they want to 'run' anything, and, in fact, they have had more than their hands full with reintegrating the former GDR into a combined Germany, without the added hassle of adopting a leadership role in the EU. You can talk about long and painfull memories, yet how is it that people like the Poles (who suffered far more than the UK did) can forgive, yet so many English people can't.

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that Germany are up to something but I am not, but the domination of Europe by Germany is just the natural order of things and it just happens, although they may nudge it a long a bit, possibly without realising they are. Same as world power is swinging to the east (and I suspect the Chinese are nudging it a long a lot).
As for veterans, each has their memories of the war, some can forgive, some can't.

 

[Deleted.......]

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that Germany are up to something but I am not, but the domination of Europe by Germany is just the natural order of things and it just happens, although they may nudge it a long a bit, possibly without realising they are. Same as world power is swinging to the east (and I suspect the Chinese are nudging it a long a lot).
As for veterans, each has their memories of the war, some can forgive, some can't.

I rather suspect that UK views are more closely alligned to those of Germany than France anyway.
Totally agree about veterans. Most of the ones I knew who ever said anything about it had far more bitter views about the Japanese than the Germans.

 

[colognehornet]

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that Germany are up to something but I am not, but the domination of Europe by Germany is just the natural order of things and it just happens, although they may nudge it a long a bit, possibly without realising they are. Same as world power is swinging to the east (and I suspect the Chinese are nudging it a long a lot).
As for veterans, each has their memories of the war, some can forgive, some can't.

I think the proof of the pudding is that Germany today is a multi cultural nation - with a higher foreign born population than any other country apart from the USA. Apparently millions of Turks, Poles, Russians, Italians, Greeks etc. live here happily without problem, or fear. Nobody here is remotely interested in 'domination', in fact the only use of the word comes from the British media. In fact there is no 'natural order' to this at all. If population growth continues at its present rate then France will overtake Germany as the leading economic power in the EU. within about the next 15 years anyway - who cares, I don't. It would be more appropriate to raise questions about the military, cultural and political dominance of the USA, and the EU as being our best defence against that. The USA only has to fart and you see an army of British journalists sniffing it to find out if it means something good for the UK. or not. The USA has been involved in military actions in about 80 different countries since World War 2, it feels it has an inborn right to interfere with the politics of every country on this planet - and yet people still worry about Germany