Off Topic UK / EU Future

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colognehornet said:
You know, if there is anything happening in any other EU. country which you can point the finger at then you will do it. In common with the Brexit comics that you read you are all too willing to grasp at any weakness in any country of the EU. at any time in order to indicate that the whole thing is on the verge of collapse - sometimes I think you want the EU. to collapse. Have you ever heard anyone over here doing the same thing about the UK ? The joke here is that you can happily do this yet accuse the other side of being spitefull ! If Britain leaves, by whatever means, then I wish the country nothing but the best in the future - and there is no European who wishes otherwise (at least they have not said it). The same is not true from your side - so tell me where is the spite coming from ?
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Absolutely no spite whatsoever. It is perfectly reasonable to point out the inherent weaknesses in the EU and to justify the excellent decision by the UK public to leave this group with so many problems. Admittedly the UK has not suffered as much as many EU member states who were unfortunately sucked into the straightjacket of being part of the Euro. This has the effect of taking away the option of member states devaluing their own currencies if required. A strategy desperately needed by Greece, Italy Spain etc. Comparing the UK with the EU is topical and completely relevant at this time of transformation approaching FREEDOM DAY.
 
superhorns said:
Absolutely no spite whatsoever. It is perfectly reasonable to point out the inherent weaknesses in the EU and to justify the excellent decision by the UK public to leave this group with so many problems. Admittedly the UK has not suffered as much as many EU member states who were unfortunately sucked into the straightjacket of being part of the Euro. This has the effect of taking away the option of member states devaluing their own currencies if required. A strategy desperately needed by Greece, Italy Spain etc. Comparing the UK with the EU is topical and completely relevant at this time of transformation approaching FREEDOM DAY.
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You would do well to remember that Greece, Italy and Spain all wanted to be in the Euro. Germany didn't and the only reason they accepted it was that Mitterand made it one of the conditions for supporting the reunification of Germany. You would also do well to remember the inherant strengths of the EU. together with some weaknesses. Namely it is the largest trading block in the World and Britain's biggest trading partner. Some of the highest standards of living in the World, together with the best health and education systems are found amongst EU. nations. Although there is some poverty in some countries the EU. has, overall, a far better record in redistributing wealth than any other block - far better than eg. the USA. There are problems, how could there not be ? The main problem is that our democratic forms arose with the nation state and transferring these onto the supranational level is not easy. But through pooling their national sovereignties they can better protect their sovereignty than the individual state can.
 
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superhorns said:
Absolutely no spite whatsoever. It is perfectly reasonable to point out the inherent weaknesses in the EU and to justify the excellent decision by the UK public to leave this group with so many problems. Admittedly the UK has not suffered as much as many EU member states who were unfortunately sucked into the straightjacket of being part of the Euro. This has the effect of taking away the option of member states devaluing their own currencies if required. A strategy desperately needed by Greece, Italy Spain etc. Comparing the UK with the EU is topical and completely relevant at this time of transformation approaching FREEDOM DAY.
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Does it not strike you that what you call 'Freedom Day' actually erects walls around people ?
 
superhorns said:
Absolutely no spite whatsoever. It is perfectly reasonable to point out the inherent weaknesses in the EU and to justify the excellent decision by the UK public to leave this group with so many problems. Admittedly the UK has not suffered as much as many EU member states who were unfortunately sucked into the straightjacket of being part of the Euro. This has the effect of taking away the option of member states devaluing their own currencies if required. A strategy desperately needed by Greece, Italy Spain etc. Comparing the UK with the EU is topical and completely relevant at this time of transformation approaching FREEDOM DAY.
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Just wait until Italy explodes at the end of the month. They have over 2 Trillion Euro's of debt which is at over 120% of GDP and the EU target is 60%! Italy have to submit their budget for EU approval by the end of September. Apparently the new Italian Government will submit a budget to increase expenditure i.e. lower taxes, lower the state pension age etc. - so to spend their way out of trouble. Now compare this with what the EU forced on Greece - cut spending, increase taxation, increase the pension age and you can just imagine what's going to happen!
Of course, I would ask who in the EU reviews and approves the Italian budget & who elected them!
I suppose the German Central Bank (sorry ECB) can continue printing Euro's to prop it up!
Hopefully the whole corrupt ediface will come crashing down on the political elites!
 
wear_yellow said:
Just wait until Italy explodes at the end of the month. They have over 2 Trillion Euro's of debt which is at over 120% of GDP and the EU target is 60%! Italy have to submit their budget for EU approval by the end of September. Apparently the new Italian Government will submit a budget to increase expenditure i.e. lower taxes, lower the state pension age etc. - so to spend their way out of trouble. Now compare this with what the EU forced on Greece - cut spending, increase taxation, increase the pension age and you can just imagine what's going to happen!
Of course, I would ask who in the EU reviews and approves the Italian budget & who elected them!
I suppose the German Central Bank (sorry ECB) can continue printing Euro's to prop it up!
Hopefully the whole corrupt ediface will come crashing down on the political elites!
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One thing that this does remind me of that I can agree with you on wy is the corruption that exists in politics in so many ways.. It also reminds me of the corruption that everyone talked about in sections of the UNDP when I worked in that sector... Many African staff would earn more as a development worker than as a Dr or government officer in their own country.. So these were cherished jobs people paid to get in their country quota.. And then they did very little when posted but live on their lavish expenses..

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Makes me laugh, what with the U.S. $14T in debt; EU in debt; Japan... pretty much everyone... so, it begs the question... where's all the money gone because if pretty much all the governments are in debt.......???
 
Hornet-Fez said:
Makes me laugh, what with the U.S. $14T in debt; EU in debt; Japan... pretty much everyone... so, it begs the question... where's all the money gone because if pretty much all the governments are in debt.......???
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I think 'debt' is a product of our capitalist/free market economies. The earth is 'still' rich in resources there is enough for us all if we are sensible. The planet is rich with potential if we use it well.

I am not an economist and have no personal debt these days but we borrow now to repay in the future...and the capital markets are full of hedge funds and banks which do this all the time.....
 
wear_yellow said:
Just wait until Italy explodes at the end of the month. They have over 2 Trillion Euro's of debt which is at over 120% of GDP and the EU target is 60%! Italy have to submit their budget for EU approval by the end of September. Apparently the new Italian Government will submit a budget to increase expenditure i.e. lower taxes, lower the state pension age etc. - so to spend their way out of trouble. Now compare this with what the EU forced on Greece - cut spending, increase taxation, increase the pension age and you can just imagine what's going to happen!
Of course, I would ask who in the EU reviews and approves the Italian budget & who elected them!
I suppose the German Central Bank (sorry ECB) can continue printing Euro's to prop it up!
Hopefully the whole corrupt ediface will come crashing down on the political elites!
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Spot on W-Y, Italy has just passed their bumper budget in defiance of EU rules. With Hungary telling the EU to get stuffed it and Merkel / Macron both really unpopular on top of Brexit, a breakup of some sorts is looking increasingly likely.

:emoticon-0159-musicThere may be trouble ahead :emoticon-0159-music We are getting out just in time.
 
It seems that the Canada + idea of the Moggs and Johnsons has been rejected by the DUP. Back to the drawing board. What version will this be I wonder? One cannot upset the ones calling the shots.
 
Hornet-Fez said:
Makes me laugh, what with the U.S. $14T in debt; EU in debt; Japan... pretty much everyone... so, it begs the question... where's all the money gone because if pretty much all the governments are in debt.......???
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Corporate organizations have more real power than national governments Fez. The state does not have the resources which it had 40 years ago, and that applies more or less everywhere. Mostly national governments do not have the resources left to put the interests or wishes of their populations into practice, but are usefull for taking the flack for everything which goes wrong. Unfortunately every attempt to correct this, or to suggest that the state needs to win back those resources leads to accusations of being labelled something like a Trotskyist.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It seems that the Canada + idea of the Moggs and Johnsons has been rejected by the DUP. Back to the drawing board. What version will this be I wonder? One cannot upset the ones calling the shots.
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This plan is the only alternative to no deal. The DUP have rightly called for more information as it is a bit vague so far. Entirely consistent with responsible politicians.
 
colognehornet said:
Corporate organizations have more real power than national governments Fez. The state does not have the resources which it had 40 years ago, and that applies more or less everywhere. Mostly national governments do not have the resources left to put the interests or wishes of their populations into practice, but are usefull for taking the flack for everything which goes wrong. Unfortunately every attempt to correct this, or to suggest that the state needs to win back those resources leads to accusations of being labelled something like a Trotskyist.
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Well it's the only explanation. And this is why the US is now in real danger of becoming a technocrat theocracy... buying the politicians and buying the judges as well.
 
colognehornet said:
Corporate organizations have more real power than national governments Fez. The state does not have the resources which it had 40 years ago, and that applies more or less everywhere. Mostly national governments do not have the resources left to put the interests or wishes of their populations into practice, but are usefull for taking the flack for everything which goes wrong. Unfortunately every attempt to correct this, or to suggest that the state needs to win back those resources leads to accusations of being labelled something like a Trotskyist.
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Or a follower of Comrade Corbyn
 
It appears that the government is cashing in on Brexit in any way they can. Having already created the conditions whereby over a million of their citizens abroad could lose their EU Citizenship, they appear to be cashing in on this as well. There has, of course, been a surge on the numbers of Britons wanting to take the citizenship of the country they are living in - in some countries this is easier than in others, and in some of them dual nationality is not recognized, so it is necessary to renounce British nationality in order to securely hold onto all their existing rights where they live. Having caused the problem in the first place the Home Office have raised the fees for renouncing citizenship by 50 pounds to 372 pounds. Really a case of adding insult to injury under the circumstances.
 
colognehornet said:
It appears that the government is cashing in on Brexit in any way they can. Having already created the conditions whereby over a million of their citizens abroad could lose their EU Citizenship, they appear to be cashing in on this as well. There has, of course, been a surge on the numbers of Britons wanting to take the citizenship of the country they are living in - in some countries this is easier than in others, and in some of them dual nationality is not recognized, so it is necessary to renounce British nationality in order to securely hold onto all their existing rights where they live. Having caused the problem in the first place the Home Office have raised the fees for renouncing citizenship by 50 pounds to 372 pounds. Really a case of adding insult to injury under the circumstances.
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Can we also save by the UK not being liable for their pensions and healthcare as well once they renounce citizenship?
 
superhorns said:
Can we also save by the UK not being liable for their pensions and healthcare as well once they renounce citizenship?
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The UK. is liable for every penny that a person has paid into the British pension system, at any stage. This applies also to EU. citizens who have worked in Britain, paid into the system, and then returned home.
 
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