Well I don't imagine Clattenburg thought it was an empty threat when Mikel stormed into his room in a rage. Threatening direct physical violence is much worse than calling someone a name or making a gesture, provoked or not. Additionally, Mikel was in full control of his actions, the Serbian FA did not personally abuse anyone. They are indirectly responsible at best.
But they are responsible, and it's far worse than name-calling. When you're surrounded by a crowd of thousands of people who are shouting insults at you, you're going to be worried. You never know what might happen when mob mentality is involved. The potential of violence is much higher than when it's just one man threatening another.
I don't accept that at all I'm afraid Joe. You've got security staff, other members of the crowd and your teammates to protect you, and often in other countries a physical barrier between the crowd and the pitch. If you're one-on-one in a confined space that's at least as intimidating, I would argue more so, and to equate the responsibility of a governing organisation for its members with that of a single agent acting by himself is just nonsensical.
And yet a big fight broke out anyway. Which is why a fine is a nonsensical solution. It's shouldn't be about punishing the Serbian FA, it should be about preventing that sort of thing from happening again. They should be banned from playing international football games until they can show that their fans are capable of being in the same stadium as people of a different race without being incredibly hostile towards them. The Serbian government is absolutely responsible for ensuring that this happens.
English clubs were banned from European football for 5 years after Hysel. In that time and on from that we have made great strides in combating racism. That individual incidents are highlighted at them moment shows that it is a very small minority reather than the majority. UEFA should have banned Serbia from international football for a similar time. They have completely bottled it and are an absoulte disgrace.
People died at Hysel...would have expected a bigger punishment, though why it was directed at all English teams and not just Liverpool isn't clear.
Woah woah, wait. Racist chanting to the degree seen at the Serbia game is MUCH worse than an empty threat of violence from a player believing that his team mate had been racially abused.
A blanket ban on playing international football would have been extreme, but it could have been made clear to the Serb athorities that such actions were at least being considered. Instead, they got a token fine. UEFA had the chance to send out a clear message that racist chanting at football matches won't be tolerated, and they bottled it.
I'd like to see how safe you feel locked in a room with a furious John Obi Mikel (who in fact believed that he had been racially abused, not his teammate). Which involved a grand total of zero of the chanting racists. I agree to a point, but firstly their fans have been well behaved more often than not in the past, and secondly how do you prove your fans can be civil while you're banned from playing? There's clearly a cultural problem amongst some Serbians, and I'd suggest making them feel victimised isn't going to help anything. I don't know the answers, I'm just saying it's not as simple as all that.
It isn't just about Serbia though. It's about sending a clear message that Racism in any form will not be tolerated.
Well I appreciate that, and I appreciate that they have singularly failed to do this at any point really, but how do you do that in a fair and reasoned way? It's more prevalent there than elsewhere but it's still a minority of fans, and in a way they have won if you ban the team from playing or force them to play matches behind closed doors, in that it makes all Serbian fans feel like victims of UEFA. Similarly, fining the FA a significant amount actually reduces their ability to ameliorate the problem. I think you need a more constructive process, UEFA and FIFA need to work together with the Serbian FA to improve this situation, and I hope they will do that, not just hand out a punishment and then leave them to their own devices.
Yep, I completely agree. There is no cut and dry solution to the issue. One of the biggest problems for me is that I don't understand why there hasn't been some sort of announcement from UEFA/FIFA condemning it, or at least explaining the punishments. There is a definite lack of communication and transparency, and it makes the whole situation worse. The problem is, the fine DOES look like a token gesture, whereas if they explain why they feel they can't punish the Serbian FA more severely then it would go some way to calming down the issue. At the moment, it looks like they have bottled the issue completely, which is unacceptable. I just don't understand how the governing bodies for Europe's biggest sport can be so inept.
It's pretty simple really. Like FIFA, UEFA is a corrupt organisation run by freeloaders and cronies. So long as they keep riding the gravy train, nothing else matters. If that sounds cynical, consider the deafening silence emanating from FIFA concerning the Spurs fans brutally attacked in rome recently, and the lack of leadership over Italy's continuing hooligan problem.
Surely one of the problems with the Serbian FA is that it seems to me that racism is probably rooted deep in Serbian society, and until that changes any actions just against the FA will be difficult to make stick. I know the measures have to be taken, and that if there is enough sustained action over a long period something might change, but you have to somehow bring Serbia as a whole into the 21st century. Slightly academic really, as UEFA's action might as well be nothing for all the good it will do.
In which case, I agree with the blanket ban on Serbian international football. If their society is not capable of matching up to the rest of the worlds moral standards, why should it be allowed to participate. Harsh, but fair.
Even if that were the case, how is that the answer? In the 70s racism was at least as endemic in English culture as it is in Serbia now, would you have advocated the same punishment then?
Let's face it, racism back then was deemed as acceptable by the public. England have changed their stance on racism, Serbia haven't. Hence why a severe punishment is needed to, as Chilco says, drag them into the 21st century.
UEFA president Platini may appeal the punishment handed out to Serbia! But only to increase the bans and size of the fine. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20725608
You don't think that maybe different societies naturally reach a point of relative racial harmony at different times? By your logic if you have two children, one who is 8 and can read and write, and one who is 3 and cannot, you should severely punish the younger child to encourage them to read and write. Face it, Britain is much more racially mixed than Serbia, because of our colonialist history. That's why we have encountered this problem before them and dealt with it already, not because we are inherently better and more progressive than they are.
I was around in the 60-70s and racism was more common, but not more acceptable. Most people were disgusted by signs saying 'No Blacks' in lodging houses...I think that most British people believe in fairness. The neanderthals throwing coins at players are the same people who would have been racist then...just looking for trouble and demonstrating herd mentality.