The first house after we got married in `71 was a cottage in Kitchener St (parallel to the top end of Cleveland Rd for those who don`t know). Here`s a snippet. After they parted ways, Mrs Ian Porterfield lived at the top of Cleveland Rd just down from the Little Sisters. Her daughter (Joanne) & mine were school pals.
Exactly. Mrs P was about opposite Guisborough. Wife was from Barnard St. You`ll know that area well enough.
Yep. I was born in Eldon St. Used to deliver papers for Oliver's, the post office / newsagent on Chester Rd, opposite the bottom of Cleveland Rd.
Our papers were delivered by Coburns (top of Cleveland Rd) If only we`d known eh? I was born in Hawthorn St. Why man we were practically neighbours. Just a matter of a few streets and 40 years.
Oliver's used to order Charles Buchan's Football Monthly for me. I never missed an issue for years. That was my version of The Bible. Wish I had them all now - it's still selling on ebay!
Well, the high point has to be winning the Cup in '73. But it wasn't just the Cup. Stokoe came on 1st. November, 1972. In the next six months, we won the Cup and climbed about fifteen places in the league. Bob also saw the crowd rise from 8,000 in October to 51,000 in March (v. Man. City) and 54,000 a few weeks later. It was a spectacular six months in every respect, and that statue outside the SoL is truly deserved. Bob Stokoe earned that. But Lawrie McMenemie certainly isn't the lowest. He came close but nothing can ever equal Alan Brown in 1958. Thing was we didn't even understand what relegation meant. It had never happened before, going back to 1890/1. So it wasn't just disappointment - it was total confusion and shame. Sixty-eight years of pride tossed away. The only club never to have played in any other but the First Division - gone! And he'd tampered with the team so much only one man could be blamed - Brown. A younger set of supporters were coming up, and they remember Brown's team of Mulhall, Hurley, Hooper &co. with affection. But it was a good-ish second division team - that was the point. The hurt Brown had brought in '58 could never be repaired, no matter how good to watch they became. Among the older ones, there was still a very deep hatred of Alan Brown - and I mean real bloody-minded hatred. And it was for life. Going down into the third division didn't hurt anywhere near as much - dare I say we'd got used to being relegated then, and this was just one more step? 1958 hit the town like a ton of bricks. Short of liquidation, I doubt anything can ever equal it.
Excellent stuff as always relic. A privledge to read. 68 years constant top flight football. Thrown away. No wonder theres bitterness. A yoyo club since then. Mind we a 9 seasons now (with a few close calls). Lets hope we can build on this.
It wasn't just the 68 years though, mate. It was the uniqueness of that record - we were the only club never to have been out of the First Division. When you think about it, it was the greatest achievement of them all. Others had cups and titles to their names, sure, but you don't have to play 68 years to get those. There were two clubs that had never been relegated from the First Division at that time - Sunderland and Portsmouth. But Portsmouth had joined the league when there was a Second Division, so they had played in that. We joined when there was only one division, and had never been out of it. It was a fantastic record really. And Brown blew it inside one year of being here. To anyone old enough to fully appreciate what it meant at the time, he can never be forgiven. I have a very deep loathing for the man even today, and he's been dead about twenty years! Silly really. But it won't go away as long as I'm alive, for sure. I remember reading somebody writing somewhere on the internet a few years ago that his family had thrown a party in '95 or '96 to celebrate Brown's death. And I can well believe it.
Did Brown stay in charge after relegation? If so for how long. Who replaced him. How long did they stay down for. Who was the owner at the time. Wad it a vase of money also. Sorry mate. Im a nosey ****er and could ask you a hundred questions. Its a fun way to learn. So i appreciate the time and effort you put in. Or you can just tell me to **** off and look it up.
Brown stayed for five years, and left when we were promoted - 1963-ish. A lot of people said he was leaving before his team got found out in the top division. But George Hardwick took over as caretaker and managed to keep us up. The following season, they appointed ex-Scotland manager, Ian McColl, and he changed things around. He signed Jim Baxter, and that had a big effect. Jimmy was drinking too much by that time, but his sheer class began to rub off on everybody at the club. In the next couple of years, we began playing some good football. We didn't climb rapidly but it was constant. We were third from bottom when McColl took over, sixth from bottom next season, ninth from bottom the next. And you could see good things coming. But some members of the Board didn't like him, and engineered his very unfair sacking. They brought back ... Brown! It was probably the biggest mistake Sunderland ever made. Within one year, he had us relegated again. By 1972, we were pushing for promotion (we ended up fifth) and the average crowd was 15,000-odd - about 100 more than the previous season when we were nowhere. It didn't matter what Brown did any more, the crowds were not coming back. We were now in debt, and it was growing. They eventually saw sense and sacked him in October '72. After a month or so with Billy Elliot as caretaker, Stokoe was appointed. And you know what he did! And no, I certainly won't tell you to **** off, mate.
So Brown got us relegated in both of his stints. No wonder there is bad feeling. McColl sounds like he was doing the right thing but got **** on big time. The crowds had turned their back on Brown. The club would have suffered. Then Stokoe rejuvenated everything. Like you say. The rest is history. So Bob Stokoe fully deserves his statue and more. So glad i got to meet him in person at his home. It all fits now. Thanks once again.
Ian McColl was indeed sh*t on big-time - and it hurt him. Ian had trained in civil engineering at Glasgow Univ. during the war. When Sunderland sacked him, he returned to civil engineering and never worked in football again for the rest of his life. I believe he died about ten years ago.
No. Bank of England team ran from the first few years after the war - say 1947 or '48 - until 1957. We were crippled early that year by the illegal payments scandal. Chairman Ditchburn and some other members of the Board were banned from all football activity for life, and Manager Bill Murray was forced to resign. The club was in turmoil because of it, and we were third from bottom that year (two up, two down in those days). But then we appointed Brown from Burnley. By 1959. nearly all the internationals had left. I think the last to go was England winger, Colin Grainger. He joined Don Revie at Leeds in 1960. There was very little money left in the club by then. McColl raised hopes a bit, and he was allowed to sign Baxter for £80,000. But it was short lived. By 1972. we were in debt, and with crowds of 15,000, the debts were growing.
So we had a good team cos the club were paying dodgy payments. They got caught and banned for life. Most of the players left and Brown was manager twice and got relegated both times. The first time breaking a 68 year streak of top flight football. McCol was between Browns 2 stints. But got **** on. Crowds were down. Club in debt then in 1972 Bob Stokoe came in. The club was rejuvenated. The crowds returned and won the cup. One more question..when they all got banned was Jimmy Hill part of the FA? Or have i got that wrong as well. History with teacher relic is easy.
Yes, all of that is correct except for the Jimmy Hill bit. Jimmy was in charge of the PFA, got the maximum wage dumped, and backed George Eastham's High Court case against the ancient and almost medieval contracts players were held to (I think Hill got the PFA to fork out around £12,000 to pay George's legal fees.) Were it not for his cheating at Coventry v Bristol City, Jimmy Hill would be appreciated a lot more than he is. He did a brilliant job at PFA, no doubt about it, and ironically, spoke up for Sunderland in 1957 (or as much as he dare anyway). See : http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-soccer-rumpus/query/Sunderland
