Turkish ref attacked
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Give refs their due, there's no celebrations for them at the end of a game, but there is always criticism of some mistake they made. The only players that come close to that are goalkeepers when they have made a cock-up.
They get a fleeting moment to make a decision based on one or at most two limited viewpoints. Their wrong decisions then get picked apart on TV using multiple angles in slo-mo and frame by frame sequences.
Has anyone on here NOT been at a match and been certain of a refereeing travesty then gone home and had their mind changed by watching that incident on video?
Refs get assessed during every game and for a bad performance they get demoted to a lower league game. Saying that is not being held accountable is wrong. How would senior players feel about being benched next game or sent to train with the U21s?
Refereeing is what it is, an important function that will never be perfect. Things like goal line technology has helped, but even that has flaws. Player tracking means that auto-offside detection is on the horizon and no doubt that will have its flaws. VAR too, and that just kills the spontaneity that us fans love most.
We have to accept that refs do a difficult job that is made worse by players cheating as much as they can get away with. We even call for our players to be more 'savvy' to get advantages during a game. We love it when the opposition get booked for this but moan like hell when our players do.
Perhaps moving to 3 yellow cards = a red card might help refs punish offending rather than having to give a player the benefit of the doubt because of the increased pressure of them then being only a yellow card away from a sending off.
Refs deserve respect just for placing themselves in the position they do. They are the very thing that makes competitive football possible and they get little enough reward for it, but no end of grief. They should not ever be subjected to haranguing by players, club officials, employees or spectators. If it occasionally happens then we live with it. The problem that we have is that it has, over time, become a constant in the game. This then makes the step to physical violence more likely. Ok, men's game and all that, but that sets the pattern for even refs at kids levels.
Even a verbal assault on a ref should result in a huge penalty for the club itself as well as for the people involved. Instant forfeiture of the game with a 10-0 win being awarded to the opponents, a fine, 3 match suspension and a 3 point deduction should be a starting point for the resultant penalty.
Civil law should also be applied for physical assaults - including any mandatory football banning order; players would thus be held to the same legal accountability as fans.
They get a fleeting moment to make a decision based on one or at most two limited viewpoints. Their wrong decisions then get picked apart on TV using multiple angles in slo-mo and frame by frame sequences.
Has anyone on here NOT been at a match and been certain of a refereeing travesty then gone home and had their mind changed by watching that incident on video?
Refs get assessed during every game and for a bad performance they get demoted to a lower league game. Saying that is not being held accountable is wrong. How would senior players feel about being benched next game or sent to train with the U21s?
Refereeing is what it is, an important function that will never be perfect. Things like goal line technology has helped, but even that has flaws. Player tracking means that auto-offside detection is on the horizon and no doubt that will have its flaws. VAR too, and that just kills the spontaneity that us fans love most.
We have to accept that refs do a difficult job that is made worse by players cheating as much as they can get away with. We even call for our players to be more 'savvy' to get advantages during a game. We love it when the opposition get booked for this but moan like hell when our players do.
Perhaps moving to 3 yellow cards = a red card might help refs punish offending rather than having to give a player the benefit of the doubt because of the increased pressure of them then being only a yellow card away from a sending off.
Refs deserve respect just for placing themselves in the position they do. They are the very thing that makes competitive football possible and they get little enough reward for it, but no end of grief. They should not ever be subjected to haranguing by players, club officials, employees or spectators. If it occasionally happens then we live with it. The problem that we have is that it has, over time, become a constant in the game. This then makes the step to physical violence more likely. Ok, men's game and all that, but that sets the pattern for even refs at kids levels.
Even a verbal assault on a ref should result in a huge penalty for the club itself as well as for the people involved. Instant forfeiture of the game with a 10-0 win being awarded to the opponents, a fine, 3 match suspension and a 3 point deduction should be a starting point for the resultant penalty.
Civil law should also be applied for physical assaults - including any mandatory football banning order; players would thus be held to the same legal accountability as fans.
I agree with most of what you say but still feel that constructive criticism should be allowed and managers and players should be able to question a referees performance without fear of reprisals from the FA as long as it is done in a measured and considered manner, but at the moment the FA come down on any manager like a ton of bricks if they dare to speak out about poor standards of referees. Not sure what the answer to this is but what we are doing at the minute is not working.
I think a more honest and open dialogue with the officials during and after games w may work. As for the respect angle all you need to do is listen to the ex pro's talk about referees and you will find out that the best referees were more like one of the lads in that they would have some banter on the pitch but everybody knew who they were and they took no ****, normally leading to a great game and less dissent.
Its a fine line to walk but the officials need to learn how to tread the line of being able to be personable and to earn players/managers respect and how to stamp authority when needed.. Collina was a master at this and it showed as he had the ability to relate to the players and allow a game to flow but stamped all over anybody who crossed the line.
Plus you have the pundits in the studio saying his shirt was touched so deserves a free kick or penalty.
My son qualified age 15 and did it for 18 months for ages 7 through to 12 and was the ref on over 150 matches in that time.
He's now stopped as in his words 'I don't want a 40 year old bloke screaming at me, or worse hitting me.'
I attended every single one of his matches and yes the vast majority of people were supportive, but there were occasions where I thought there was going to be violence against him.
Why should I put my son or daughter in that position?
send the club to non league and 5 years transfer embargo, current players allowed to terminate contracts and find new clubs...needs to be a very strong punishment and yes, it seems harsh on the club due to one incident by the president but strong actions will deter the next president.
officials have always had grief and it is pretty much expected as 'part of the job', in reality although we moan and shout at them during the game we have a bit talk about them and it is forgotten...one problem these days is the constant scrutinising by former players acting as pundits with the benefit of several camera angles and slow motion replays, if only the officials had them for every incident but that is just not possible.
then, these pundits invent their own laws of the game, 'ball to hand' and 'if there is contact no matter how little it is a foul' are two often used terms, kids watching MotD start to see that officials are always wrong and that these 'laws' must be part of the game, it also does not take long for them to realise that certain teams tend to get more decisions going for them...even the players of those teams fall over if they get themselves into trouble along with that other pundit fave 'he won that foul, showing his experience'.
officials have always had grief and it is pretty much expected as 'part of the job', in reality although we moan and shout at them during the game we have a bit talk about them and it is forgotten...one problem these days is the constant scrutinising by former players acting as pundits with the benefit of several camera angles and slow motion replays, if only the officials had them for every incident but that is just not possible.
then, these pundits invent their own laws of the game, 'ball to hand' and 'if there is contact no matter how little it is a foul' are two often used terms, kids watching MotD start to see that officials are always wrong and that these 'laws' must be part of the game, it also does not take long for them to realise that certain teams tend to get more decisions going for them...even the players of those teams fall over if they get themselves into trouble along with that other pundit fave 'he won that foul, showing his experience'.
I agree with allowing constructive criticism, but not when it is done with hands around the throat or with the faces about an inch apart with spittle spraying over the ref.
I'm sure all of this will...."go away" once back ballances are updated.
I’m sorry I burst out laughing when I read your post title. I watched the ref get battered and then kicked in the head. Then I read your heading and thought it said
Turkish Referee sacked.
Its clear who kicks him in the head as well. Just cos it's a football pitch doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as anything else but assault.
Both should be going in front of a judge and getting dealt with by the courts. Disgusting behaviour.
Both should be going in front of a judge and getting dealt with by the courts. Disgusting behaviour.
It's an interesting one. I think that referees being assaulted should be treated the same as any other member of public being attacked but why doesn't that apply to footballers?
Why is it ok for Cantona to flying kick someone in the crowd or Zidane to headbutt someone in the chest? Ok they get red cards but that has no relation to real life punishments. What's the difference?
Having to do a lower league game for a single week isn't accountability. It's a con for the gullible. They're inevitably back in the big league the week after, having learned nothing at all.
There should be retraining and reassessment before they're allowed back. And most importantly, it should all be transparent. Too much gets let off with a nod and a wink and back to spoiling matches.
You say it's not transparent so how the heck can you know what is let off and what is corrected?!
The process itself is pretty well known though;
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At what point does a human ref get replaced by AI? Applies same algorithm to all games and players so can’t be accused of bias. Will still make mistakes but they’ll be consistent in the mistakes. It’s what we are asking a human ref to be despite all the unconscious biases, distractions and mental lapses that come with being a human.
I don't disagree with your point so why when we have a rule book do the PGMOL the brief referees on what to target IE this season it has been added time and time wasting along with ensuring that games flow and they are not giving free kicks for every push in the back, which leads to players constantly pushing and nudging players in the back because they know referees are not punishing them.
I guess my point is make the rules clear and referee to them (when was the last time you seen a decision given for obstruction or the rarely seen foul throw) I don't mind a referee being harsh in a game as long as he is consistent in his decisions across a whole season and can justify his choices in relation to the rules. I also would find it refreshing for a referee to be allowed to say what he thought on his decisions. For example to say what he seen at full speed and either back up his big decisions or admit fault as that is how we as humans learn.
I don't want all referees to be the same what I would like is each referee to be consistent in their decision making I do not expect all referees to be as consistent as each other they are all individuals and should have their own styles to ref a game.
I really like having the ref miked up in rugby, would also help record how they are spoken to.