Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

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My girls are NOT terrorists. they hunt terrorists.

(well... anyone not russian)

recent training camp

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donga darko said:
Creepy. Stephen Nolan was berated last night by a relative of Colin Parry for being 'biased' on his R5 show towards Mc guiness. I don't think he was, but all he said, as I heard it, ws in response to a caller talking about IRA attrocities was that , in the eyes of the Nationalist community, the RUC and the Army committed atrocities too. Then a caller from Derry 'helpfully' compared Bomber Command and Dresden to the British actions in Ulster...

As for Tebbit, well you do have to understand his grief, to some extent anyway, but being an ex fighter pilot I wonder how he feels about Adolf Galland being one of the main consultants on the the film The Battle of Britain? It's too trite to say everyone must move on, but here is the alternative: another 800 years of 'No surrender' and my side is right, yours is wrong. Like some Sicillian omerta, forever.

Colin Parry's FATHER has said that he believes McGuiness is genuine. That is not to say his past is somehow forgotten, but a shared future is better than a separate, antagonistic, Arab- Israeli future stretching out forever. But my main problem with Tebbitt is the idea that because the IRA were infiltrated, then Britain was on the verge of 'winning' in Ulster anyway. Winning? Does he seriously believe that if the IRA went dormant for a decade or two, like in the 40's and 50's, that Republicanism and the grievances of Roman Catholics in NI would go away? It's that sort of horseshit, from Carson onwards, that had led to the Troubles of the 70's and 80's anyway.

No, The Good Friday Peace Agreement was a s good as it was going to get at that stage, and the situation now is far preferable to the 70's and 80's too, and if a democratic Ulster decides its future one way or another (possibly NOT along the old religious ties if sufficient Protestant Remainers decide upon a course of EU unity, for instance) then that is their right. And it's bollocks to say that McGuinness never played a part in that seemingly impossible future, when viewed through the hopelessness of the 70's.

But back to the Krauts - they bombed our chippy, didn't they? Seriously, they dropped a land mine meant for the docks on Lister Drive that killed hundreds in a shelter and they just concreted it over in the end. Can we ever forgive them? Can the Indians forgive us for Amritsar? There has to be reconciliation and moving on: moving on together. Tebbit betrays his zero sum solutions to conflicts and hides it behind his grief for his wife and friends. At least others who've been equally affected, such as the Eniskillen victims, haven't called for the total crushing of one side by the other as being a solution to an 800 year problem.
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I would not go so far as this but....

Mandela was bascially what peoepl would call a terrorist nowadays. but he was a saint to most.

The thing about mcguiness and N.I. is the never ending dance. Everyone knew it was an utter lie about army council and membership of ira etc. but it was a dance. In the end as long as the comfortable lie was maintained and peace did occur then the unionists seems to say ok we can live the lie.

My opinion looking from afar is the guys on the ground on both sides were held back under orders mostly and as good as it gets is probably the best description for it. There was no 90% majority taking over like in SA. There was not truth and reconciliation where confession = get away with it.

IF mcguiness ever admitted yeah sure i'm the army council etc etc everyone would have thrown the peace away... and so the lies keep spinning round.

If the thing keeps going for another 10/1 years and the other obvious ira retrie or die then what... will the lies and dancing round continue?

when do the ACTUAL people living fence/wall to wall actually live together i wonder?

Its not like A points the way does it <laugh>
 
saintKlopp said:
In almost all conflicts it's never as simple as saying one side is right and the other wrong, and both sides will be able to point at either real or perceived atrocities against them. The only solution is to move on, and whilst forgiveness may be difficult or even impossible, co-operation is necessary otherwise there will be no resolution. The only practical hope is that a peace of some sort prevails beyond living memory of the conflict and then grievances can hopefully pass into history.
I haven't read what Tebbit has said today, but what I remember of him is that as a man of great privilege and power, he showed very little compassion for anyone less fortunate, so I am entirely distrustful of his bigotry and hatred hiding behind a mask of grief.
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He was pretty much as depicted on Spitting Image <ok>
 
Appalling that CNN has much more level headed and concise coverage of this than Sky or BBC which ranged from trying to overdramatise by trying to make out the timeline of the one inccident was somehow 3 separate attacks and the other just dithering on phones...
 
Holy Crap. Did Nunes just do what I think he did? I was dubious that the FBI investigation would find fire but for the Chair of an intelligenve oversight committee to brief the president on classified documents handed to him on a FISA warrant just to muddy the waters shows they really are scared about the real investigation.

They thought because of what Comey did to Clinton he was in their pocket. They are now panicking because no one checked to see if he actually was.....
 
Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance. In such cases, the identities of U.S. citizens are supposed to be kept secret — but can be “unmasked” by intelligence officials under certain circumstances.
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My wife told me she read about this theory immediately after Trump said he was wiretapped. Never saw it again until now.

This justifies Trump's claim that he was tapped on one hand but on the other it's a bit of a smoking gun meaning he HAD been talking to someone who was being monitored. Maybe Russians.
 
Milk #25 not yet named said:
My wife told me she read about this theory immediately after Trump said he was wiretapped. Never saw it again until now.

This justifies Trump's claim that he was tapped on one hand but on the other it's a bit of a smoking gun meaning he HAD been talking to someone who was being monitored. Maybe Russians.
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Except he wasn't tapped. Foreign nationals..non russian. Not Trump Tower or Trump residence. Court ordered. The US nationals names were redacted as required even in Nunes copy but he guessed through context (his name perhaps..lol) that some of trumps lot were incidental interceptions; so the guy on the other end of the foreign nationals tapped line.

Instead of sharing it with the rest of the oversight committee (still hasnt) he ran straight to the Whitehouse to share with Trump. Then briefed the press (possibly an illegal action since it was under a FISA warrant)

So clearly at the very least an abuse of position as chair in an attempt to muddy the waters yet admitting it had nothing to do with current FBI investigation.

So huge stretch for Trump to say he's vindicated (he will anyway)

Says they will do anything to distract or undermine the FBI investigation and it's findings. They are worried...
 
Itv news ...christ...virtual terrorist replays and what appeared to be ainsley Harriot trying out journalism..

What's pissed me off the most is this growing idea that oooh..security failure! The attacker got into parliament..

No he didn't. Our Parliament is specifically seen to be open and approachable despite in reality not being so. It's perception yes but deliberate. It's saying our government is supposed to be close to the people not fenced off.

Security didn't fail...the police at the gate challenged the terrorist immediately and one gave his life doing so..then two other police officers shot the ****er. That's security working while still maintaining an approachability for citizens.

Within 10 minutes additional armed response swamped the area.

These media ****ers trying to suggest there was a security failure are disrespecting this police officers sacrifice...he was the security...he did his job.

Oh and a member for parliament was the one who attempted to keep the police officer alive not knowing if there were more terrorists....<applause>
 
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DirtyFrank said:
Itv news ...christ...virtual terrorist replays and what appeared to be ainsley Harriot trying out journalism..

What's pissed me off the most is this growing idea that oooh..security failure! The attacker got into parliament..

No he didn't. Our Parliament is specifically seen to be open and approachable despite in reality not being so. It's perception yes but deliberate. It's saying our government is supposed to be close to the people not fenced off.

Security didn't fail...the police at the gate challenged the terrorist immediately and one gave his life doing so..then two other police officers shot the ****er. That's security working while still maintaining an approachability for citizens.

Within 10 minutes additional armed response swamped the area.

These media ****ers trying to suggest there was a security failure are disrespecting this police officers sacrifice...he was the security...he did his job.

Oh and a member for parliament was the one who attempted to keep the police officer alive not knowing if there were more terrorists....<applause>
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Well said sir <applause>
 
DirtyFrank said:
Itv news ...christ...virtual terrorist replays and what appeared to be ainsley Harriot trying out journalism..

What's pissed me off the most is this growing idea that oooh..security failure! The attacker got into parliament..

No he didn't. Our Parliament is specifically seen to be open and approachable despite in reality not being so. It's perception yes but deliberate. It's saying our government is supposed to be close to the people not fenced off.

Security didn't fail...the police at the gate challenged the terrorist immediately and one gave his life doing so..then two other police officers shot the ****er. That's security working while still maintaining an approachability for citizens.

Within 10 minutes additional armed response swamped the area.

These media ****ers trying to suggest there was a security failure are disrespecting this police officers sacrifice...he was the security...he did his job.

Oh and a member for parliament was the one who attempted to keep the police officer alive not knowing if there were more terrorists....<applause>
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Well said. Can't understand the talk of security failure when it seemed to work fine.

Also agree with the earlier comment about the more panicky coverage of this attack than, say, 7/7. Wonder if that's because the (Westminster) journos were directly affected this time.
 
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So out of the blue a religious lunatic decides to mow down and kill innocent pedestrians and stab and kill members of the public, police and MP's all within an area of London that is constantly full of tourists and heavy traffic etc.
The police aren't Mystic ****ing Meg's and despite being caught off guard kept the possible death rate down.
 
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I'm just using this as the politics ranty thread apologies if anyone wants it staying narrow on Trump.

Watching Nolan ...will skip the Marty section with the exception that it gave me great hope..5 talkers in the audience born just after good Friday agreement ..."can't understand why first minister wouldn't go to funeral of deputy first minister" "I know what he did before I was born but I can only go on what he did while I've been alive" etc etc.

Tough for people who live before but this lot are the future...they don't understand and that's a good thing to a point.

Anyway..now on to *****phile.....discussing the idea that the chief constable saying guys that just download images shouldn't be prosecuted.

Nolan has those *****phile hunter guys on.

So...does anyone agree with the chief constable and does anyone support the *****phile hunter guys...who while vigilantes apparently stick very carefully to the law....but police hate them...the police who can't be arsed apparently...

I think I've stated my preference.
 
That's what happens when ignorant Americans vote in an absolutely classless non political nepotist as president.
The Trumphouse in Trumpington DC is riddled now with the Trumpy's spawn.
 
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'You're a disgrace': Donald Trump Jr slammed for criticising Sadiq Khan only hours after London at
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Donald Trump Jr made the controversial comment on Twitter (Picture: AP Photo)
The son of U.S. President Donald Trump has been slammed as a ‘disgrace’ after he appeared to criticise London mayor Sadiq Khan on Twitter, only hours after a terror attack at the Houses of Parliament left four people dead – including a police officer.
Donald Trump Jr shared a link to a story in The Independent from 2016, in which Mr Khan is quoted as saying that terror attacks were ‘part and parcel of living in a big city’, before clarifying that ‘every single agency and individual involved in protecting our city has the resources and expertise they need to respond in the event that London is attacked.’
Mr Trump shared the story on Twitter, alongside the caption: ‘You have to be kidding me?!’
It’s currently unclear whether he realised that the story dated back to 2016 – but his response was roundly criticised on Twitter
Wes Streeting MP‏Verified account@wesstreeting 19h
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@DonaldJTrumpJr You use a terrorist attack on our city to attack London's Mayor for your own political gain. You're a disgrace.
 
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