Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

Lol...we will never know...my gut instinct is that come voting day only the t-shirt wearing rednecks will actually vote for him.

At the minute even Republican Reps are doing the "don't agree but have to endorse" line....that's before the real vs campaign heats up. By election day there will be a serious amount of Republican "Tory" votes...say one thing, vote the opposite

It's only remotely close polling wise because they hate Hillary that much...and when I say close its 45% to 40%...

Come election day I predict a bigger margin win for Hillary...

Could have egg on my face of course....

 

Speaking of...is there some Rewind concert with loads of 80's bands happening? Heard it on radio yesterday...would love that lol..

Adam Ant was my childhood idol lol

 

Not sure about that Frank, but the Rebellion festival is happening right now up in Blackpool. Essentially a punk thing, my daughters there with
her fella

 

I honestly expect a bloody landslide victory for hillary.

Trump is doing a very good mussolini impression. If you've every seen videos of that dictator you'd know what i mean.

Electing him would seriously be electing every hawk going cos trumpnin the end had to dig round for a running mate and found a right ultra cinservative sounding guy. A guy who denies climate change and all that etc etc etc.

By the time he assembles a cabinet team the ultra right wing hawks will doninate and there will be wars.

 

Yes. This weekend somewhere.

 

Still pisses me off that there are idiots who try to deny it. ****ing morons.
Thats the staple of Republican conservative stances though:

1) Deny Climate change
2) Be against gay marriage
3) Be against abortion
4) Be against investigating any form of tax evasion
5) Be Pro Gun to ****ery!
6) Hate black people, not overtly, you know but snidely (Watch lots of Tomi Lahren and Fox News)

They could just wrap all 6 of those issues into one by just making their mission statement:

1) Be a total and utter, wilfully ignorant, ****!

 

Described his running mate to a tea...

 

I agree with most of this. #3 I'm wavering on. I do think women should be educated to try and avoid abortions when at all possible. I also think any abortion that happens should happen early in the pregnancy and not left as long as they sometimes are.

I'm against abortion as a form of Birth Control. It should be rare, acted on in an educated manner and performed early if at all. I do think in the US that abortion can be carried out a little to casually.

I'm not pro criminalisation of abortion but I do believe government needs to have an education plan against it kinda like they do against smoking.

 

All you can do is educate people, and then they will do what they are gonna do.
For me the "casualness" of abortions doesnt come in to it.
Its a womans right, it's her body, the thing inside her isn't a person yet.
As long as its done before say, 15 weeks I have no problem with it at all.
Most of the Anti-Abortion rhetoric spewed by idiots is more about denying women control of their bodies, or a selfish desire to see them punished for their promiscuity.

 

It's a very grey area with no correct answer. The "thing" inside her becomes a "person" at some point- it is very much open for debate what defines when it becomes a "person" and that's something you'll never get everyone agreeing on.

Here in the US it is legal up to 24 weeks which is far too long imo. There have been shorter pregnancies when the baby actually managed to survive when born at that age. In fact 26 weeks is the age when a premature baby born is expected to survive.

I'm not a medical expert. I don't honestly know when a good cut off age is but certainly by week 20 it's too late.



I don't think abortion should be criminalised or made illegal in general. However I would say in theory I am against most abortions. I do think parents should have right to decide up until a point; however, I think in most scenarios abortion is at the very least immoral.

A friend of a friend of mine had had two abortions by age 20. No birth defects. Not living in poverty with no hope of raising child. Wasn't rape or anything like that.

She just was lax with birth control.



Honestly though, until we lost twins (17weeks) I had a much more laissez faire attitude towards abortion but seeing how developed a baby is even that early changed my mind.

In our case we were forced to abort pregnancy because there was a 0% chance of them surviving to birth and we didn't want them developing more. I think we made the right choice and I don't feel bad about having it done.

My friends friend who had two abortions as a teenager just because she didn't insist on a condom sickens me.

As I said. I'm not pro making abortion illegal but I think there should be better education against it. Certainly 24 weeks is much too late too.

 

My wife is currently 24 weeks pregnant with our second child, funnily enough, and the baby is kicking and all sorts, so I would certainly deem 24 weeks to be a little too late.
For me 15-17 weeks(ish).
It does get me angry that (a few) women use it as birth control, but thats not down to some misguided bullshit Christian morality crap or owt, more to do with the fact that the NHS (ie us) has to foot the bill, because they are to scummy to spend £2 on johnnies.
You dont even have to do that these days, a lot of health centres give contraception away for nothing.
But for me, at 15 weeks, its not a life, thats just how I feel, so prior to that its fair enough.

Thats another thing that disgusts me about the US is they have an awesome foundation called Planned Parenthood, who offer advice, education, contraception and even abortions when needed, and a lot of the Republican **** tards are trying to get it de funded. Even though non of their funding goes toward the abortion side of things (Government funded abortions are illegal in the US, so the abortion side is funded by donations).

 

Both of you have points and everyone has to form their own opinion.

I think the debate is symptomatic of modern world.

1. Bod is right in that a woman has a right to control her own body.

2. However an abortion is not a right. It is among many other things a "privilege" bestowed by western society not a right.

Nobody has a right to sonething they "want" imo. Society creates many good and bad things but imo privileged people seem to think they've a god given right to everything.

We should be very clear what rights are and rhey are fundamental for all... globally but those things we fortunate have access to have either been earned or given tous by those who have gone before are not rights and we should becgrateful for them.

We enjoy freedom. It is not a right.

We enjoy loads of food to eat and water to drink we have no right to it we should be grateful for where we were born and when.

The privileged i find are the most intolerant and most self serving.

 

Agree with this to be honest.

I cannot stand woman who use it as a form of birth control.
Its not a right, but its an option, one to be considered.
The problem is, if you refuse a woman an abortion, she will go to other means in order to abort the pregnancy, drinking booze, taking drugs, I even heard of one woman paying another to hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat, because abortions were illegal in her state (this is the US of course).

All you can do is educate people as much as possible on being responsible, and hope for the best, as with all things.

Maybe an idea would be for women in the UK who have already had 2 abortions, if they get pregnant a third time and wish to abort, then they have to pay for it, like an attachment of earnings type deal. Where she has to pay £50 a month till the expenses are covered.
There is no moral issue with abortions as far as I am concerned, if they are done at an early stage.
I would deem 24 weeks to be a little too far gone though imo.
Surely it should be 20 at the VERY MAXIMUM. (Unless the mother's life is in danger of course)

 

This is a controversial and sensitive subject and not a road I want to go too far down on a football forum.
However, I must say one thing - my ex-wife is a nurse and was present at a number of abortions and would vehemently disagree with you there. The unborn child may not have legal status, but that is awarded arbitrarily anyway, and to call it a "thing" is rather offensive imo.

 

Technically they're legal in all 50 states. Federal ruling states that individual states cannot ban abortion.

What some states do is make it hard to legally be a clinic that performs abortions so that it is hard for a woman to find a legal clinic.

They might also pass laws that make it uncoverable by insurance. (if a standard well visit costs $300+ without insurance and you only see the doctor 5 mins, the rest of time with nurses I can't imagine how much an uninsured abortion would cost).

 

You're entitled to be offended of course.
Won't change my opinion.
Everything I say is my own opinion, you can take that as agiven by virtue of the fact that I said it.
You are obviously entitled to disagree or be offended, just as I am as entitled to not care that you are offended. (With all due respect).

 

Yeah its ridiculous, "You can have an abortion, but it will cost you $3,000.00 and you will have to drive 5 hours to the nearest clinic to be seen, at your own expense of course!".
When you pay medical insurance, it should be covered.
But thats the US for you.

 

I'd say the NHS is a privilege that spoils some rotton so...

americans having to pay for medical treatment of 80% of globe not having much of any shows this.

 

I didn't say I was offended, I said I believe it is offensive. That means I believe it is offensive to many, whether or not I am included.
If you don't care for the sensibilities of others, even if they have a reasoned explanation for their concerns then that's up to you.