Troy Deeney
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I'm not convinced that beating someone unconscious and proceeding to kick them in the head can be deemed a "silly mistake"...but maybe thats just me.
There is divided opinion over Troy and whether or not to retain him. Where you say "..the lad made a silly mistake.." others say that his actions were those of an out and out thug who has no place in a family oriented club such as ours.
The Pozzos certainly play their cards close to their chest, so it is hard to pre-empt their final decision - and whilst there has been no news about whether the club are still paying him, I tend to think that he may be kept on at least until Zola has the chance to assess whether or not he sees him as being useful to the squad.
The Pozzos certainly play their cards close to their chest, so it is hard to pre-empt their final decision - and whilst there has been no news about whether the club are still paying him, I tend to think that he may be kept on at least until Zola has the chance to assess whether or not he sees him as being useful to the squad.
The only thing I have to say about the morality of the situation is that many Watford fans have idolised worse people than Troy.
He's probably on £4-5k a week, and has been in prison for over six weeks now. I suppose £25-30k or so isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd think that if we were going to get rid of him we would have done so already.
Let's say that the club has decided to keep him. There will be a backlash when that decision is confirmed, so why rush into it? What benefit is there to the club of announcing it promptly? It's the sort of thing that you talk about when season tickets are sold and results are coming together, not in pre-season when some muppets are accusing the owners of being cheapskates who are turning us into a feeder club, and some other muppets are booing the team for taking too long to win its first game.
He's probably on £4-5k a week, and has been in prison for over six weeks now. I suppose £25-30k or so isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd think that if we were going to get rid of him we would have done so already.
Let's say that the club has decided to keep him. There will be a backlash when that decision is confirmed, so why rush into it? What benefit is there to the club of announcing it promptly? It's the sort of thing that you talk about when season tickets are sold and results are coming together, not in pre-season when some muppets are accusing the owners of being cheapskates who are turning us into a feeder club, and some other muppets are booing the team for taking too long to win its first game.
well said NNW. I would imagine they'll wait and see when he comes out. He could be out by Christmas, in which case, they might think it's worth keeping him, but if he's not out til March, with his contract running out at the end of the season, they may not wish to renew. Hmm, all guesswork. Personally, as has been said, we've had worse. I think Troy is not a bad person, but what he did was very bad. He's paying the price, whether he's actually worth keeping on when he's out i'm not sure. Hopefully by then we'll have strikers and can get the ball up the pitch so that they can score!
There are those who believe that once the sentence has been served, then the slate is wiped clean and past misdemeaners shold be forgotton. I am not one of those people. And I think many who hold that view would rethink it if the circumstances of the offence were closer to home. What if the victim was your close relative? would you then forgive the attacker unreservedly on his release? or if a financial adviser had defrauded you of a large amount of money that you had given him to invest or buy a house from your mortgage proceeds, would you then trust him with more money to invest for you on his release?
The amount of remorse shown by the perpetrator and, of course whether I believe it, will affect how I feel about Td's return.
The amount of remorse shown by the perpetrator and, of course whether I believe it, will affect how I feel about Td's return.
My thoughts on this are that at the time he committed the crime and was charged we the fans were not immediatly aware of the situation or the extent of the situation whilst the club were. It should be hoped that SD & Board members sat down and told him his career was over at Watford unless he settled down, showed remose and turned over a new leaf (or something to that effect). He then went on to finish the season in fine style and became top scorer so I'd like to think that the club gave him that chance and he repaid them; unfortunatly he got jail time (obviously deserved) which maybe they didn't expect but have stood by their word. Now of course with new owners (renouned for knowing how to add up the pennies) there could be a change of heart but I doubt it. I expect him to feature in the squad before Christmas.
Personally I do feel he should be given a 2nd chance, but with some conditions on his release. I would make him donate his wage while he was away to either a charity of the clubs choice, or to the victim himself. He should also have to do a significant amount of work in the community. His punishment is the prison sentance, so after it should be about rehabilitation and education.
A principle of justice is that you should not pay twice for one crime. He has done wrong, been apprehended found gulity and given a prison sentence. At the end of that his punishment should be finished. The "closer to home" argument will always be true - I don't believe in Capital Punishment but if someone near and dear to me was murdered I am sure I would feel like murdering them - but that is just personal vengeance and would not be right. Society though has to be bigger than that.
Everyone will now have an opinion of Deeney so he will always suffer a degree of dislike for his actions for the rest of his life and that is fair enough as people will always form opinions. However is anyone really of the opinion that criminals should be denied the opportunity to return to decent society and to earn a living. He has a profession and should earn his own living doing it - just because that profession is football makes no difference - the alternative is we all support him on benefits for the rest of his life! As for whether a family club like Watford would want him that does depend on his attitude when he is released - if he is genuinely remorseful and penitent then perhaps he can be a positive influence.
I am not saying that you should pay twice for one crime. It is quite correct that only one period of punishment should be levied for one crime. What I am saying is that when you commit an offence, there are consequences. One of the consequences is that you risk losing the respect of other people. I like to think I show trust and respect to others untill they do something to show it is misplaced. Then it takes a lot more effort to win back that respect and trust, than if it had not been lost in the first place. Onlyserving a prison sentence does not win back my respect. And the responsibility for losing that respct only lies with one person. I said in my last post that I wanted to see what remorse TD showed before I would form an opinion about his return. And if remorse was shown, I would give another chance.
And I pose my question again. Rather than feeling like exacting a revenge which would in itself be a criminal act, would you trust a fraudster who had just served his time, with an amount of your own and your family's money, which would have a material effect on your life if you lost it?
And I pose my question again. Rather than feeling like exacting a revenge which would in itself be a criminal act, would you trust a fraudster who had just served his time, with an amount of your own and your family's money, which would have a material effect on your life if you lost it?
You're comparing apples with Pizza Hut. To compare like with like we need to talk about employing them at the club. Employing the fraudster in a position where he could do a similar thing again would pose a significant risk to the club's finances.
I'm not in a position to say that Troy Deeney will or won't reoffend, but there is no reason whatsoever to believe that he would ever turn on one of his own, meaning that there is no special risk of him offending against someone connected with Watford. There isn't really a risk to the club's reputation either, in the sense that while there will be some damage, that will be the immediate backlash of retaining the player.
I'm afraid to say NNW, that you miss my point. I am really talking about bananas which have nothing to do with apples or pizzas! My point is that those who believe that a punishment will put everything all nice and back to the situation that existed before the offence was committed, should consider if their view would be any different if the offence and offender was much closer to home and family. I am making an observation on people's personal views only. I am not saying offenders should not be given a second, third or even more chance.
And when you say that you don't think that TD would attack "one of his own", can you be sure if he checked what club the victim supported before he kicked his head in so that he wasn't attacking " one of his own" .
And when you say that you don't think that TD would attack "one of his own", can you be sure if he checked what club the victim supported before he kicked his head in so that he wasn't attacking " one of his own" .
That assumes that everyone who claims to support Watford is "one of our own". A large majority of Watford fans, whether they're miserable, impatient, and unrealistic, optimistic and delusional, or somewhere in the middle, are nonetheless good people who love the club. But we, like any club, have a small minority of filth. Maybe 50 or 100, but they're there. Some of them consider violence part of everyday life. A few of them might even have joined the EDL if it wasn't connected with our neighbours to the north. They aren't "our own", they're the crap on our shoes that just won't go away.
If we want a club that is purer than pure, we should start by cracking down on them, rather than a man who even the judge readily accepted was acting entirely out of character.
If we want a club that is purer than pure, we should start by cracking down on them, rather than a man who even the judge readily accepted was acting entirely out of character.
I am one of those that believe he should have a second chance, allegedly and whilst being inside he has shown remorse ,when he is released in the eyes of the law he has served his punishment, the money to charity and or the victim isnt a bad idea . I believe as has been said it is the clubs responsibilty to help with the rehab and prove that we are club that look after and help our own. Just a shame that many companies would sack an employee for a similar offence,maybe what is needed in the world is a lot more tolerance and if WFC take the lead in this than that must be a good thing.
Just think about the victim........he will be carrying a broken jaw (when he was kicked in the head whilst lying on the floor) and other injuries around for life. TD on the other hand will resume his playing career if not with us then with someone else and he will continue to earn thousands. For me, I personally think he should meet his victim, show some remorse and perhaps meet any further health bills the lad may have in the future. That would go a long way in my book
Everyone deserves a second chance. However, like you said W-Y this would go a long way and earn more redemption.
He did a bad thing. But, we should all be given a second chance, and if he messes up again, we should sack him, but in the meantime we should just fine him and keep him. We can learn from our mistakes
Also, what he did was wrong, and he shouldn't have gone that far, but if your Brother was being picked on or beaten up, you wouldn't just leave him would you. but he should've talked to them rather than hit them. he handled the situation wrong
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
Similarly I supported Marlon King who IMO was a great striker.. and still is to a degree.
We all have good and bad in us and many of us have done things that we regret and make amends for etc. If Deeney is willing to do that I am happy to see him stay