Malky was deemed surplus to requirements into his 30's and a lot of fans still consider that to be one of the worst decisions in recent times.
Transfer thread Summer 2015
- Thread starter Walsh.i.am
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By the way I know he's gone, I know it hasn't necessarily weakened our first choice starting XI and I've accepted that he won't play for us any more, that we need to move on and none of this idle speculation and discussion will change anything.
Not doing any harm to chat about it though, it is what this forum is about after all and I still genuinely think there is more to come from this (for what it's worth) and I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to be able to properly understand why this happened, because a lot of us still don't get it despite everything that has been suggested this far.
Not doing any harm to chat about it though, it is what this forum is about after all and I still genuinely think there is more to come from this (for what it's worth) and I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to be able to properly understand why this happened, because a lot of us still don't get it despite everything that has been suggested this far.
The only position that BJ has any chance of being second choice for is on the left side of central midfield. He has already been second choice for that position in recent games but we've got new midfield options arriving. My guess is that one of Brady or Jarvis will be utilised instead to give us more width on the left, and then you've also got Mulumbu coming into the side and Vadis back after a month. Basically we have a ton of options that are likely to push him down the pecking order before we even need to do comparisons with O'Neil. Sure he'd get some playing time, but the question is whether he would get £6m worth. He scored 15 goals last year but that has to be balanced against 6 in 96 PL games in the 3 years previous. Cue someone mentioning Hughton's tactics...!
I wonder if McNally's been on to the Marketing dept yet...
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Very gloomyI agree with this, but equally I think that some players have also built up a mountain of goodwill to the point that people don't question their abilities / performance or usefulness going forward.
We're going round in circles. Having £6m worth of player on the bench is not an issue, it's a sign of progress. You accept he'd play regularly. He would not be competing with Jarvis.
Let's take a different tack: why sign a player like Jarvis on loan, who hasn't been in good form for seasons, when you could have your own player in the form of his life? That marketing thing is funny, but it also strongly suggests there was no intention to sell Johnson at the beginning of the summer. Given that Brady and Mulumbu were signed early in the window, any concerns about Johnson being down the pecking order would have been around from the beginning if it's the picture you paint, but there was no indication that his sale was anything other than last minute.
So your answer doesn't make sense. His position in the midfield order was already clear once Brady and Mulumbu arrived. Jarvis didn't arrive to go ahead of him, Jarvis arrived because we sold Johnson, no sale and I would bet my bottom dollar Jarvis wouldn't be here. So you can't be right that Jobnson was being pushed further down.
I'm sure you'll just repeat what you've already said, but the fact is it's pretty clear Johnson was sold for a reason we don't know and that's backed up by it being a decision taken very late in the transfer window. Something changed. Jarvis's arrival wasn't the reason for Johnson leaving, it was the response.
Exactly what has happened with Andreu and Vadis - so why not Bradders?
The thick plottens!
Because AN sees Vadis & Andreu as players who potentially have a future at the club and not Johnson. Also neither Vadis nor Andreu would raise 6m. It is quiet clear that AN didn't see Johnson as the key player this season that he was last season. With Johnson knowing this it makes perfect sense that he would want to go, particularly bearing in mind his age and a 4 year contract. Surely Derby must have a chance of going up this year and I don't doubt if they do his wages will go up as well. Maybe he preferred playing for a team challenging for promotion rather than potentially sitting on the bench or maybe not even making the squad for a team fighting to avoid relegation.
But if that's true then it all would have been known right at the beginning of the transfer window (or at least once Brady and Mulumbu had arrived). So why was it all so last minute? Why play him at all (starting one game and first sub in most of the others)? Just about every other signing except Jarvis and Johnson we heard about well advance, why did we not hear about them? Why replace your own, top form player on a relatively recently sign contract with a fading aged loanee (I'm being unfair slightly, Jarvis could well be a good signing)? Why on earth include him in your marketing material?!
Well Canario ([HASHTAG]#4450[/HASHTAG]), I look forward to seeing your answers to Rob's post ([HASHTAG]#4451[/HASHTAG])
None of this would have been an issue (for more than 24 hours) if plans had been made to identify and bring in a decent CB with the Johnson money. Many/ most fans still see this (central defence) as by far our weakest area.
So pardon my ignorance, but are we still allowed to loan in unattached players, for a month, 3 months or a full season? If so, and we can find a CB and use Bradders supposed £6m to cover their fees/wages, life will more quickly revert to some normality
None of this would have been an issue (for more than 24 hours) if plans had been made to identify and bring in a decent CB with the Johnson money. Many/ most fans still see this (central defence) as by far our weakest area.
So pardon my ignorance, but are we still allowed to loan in unattached players, for a month, 3 months or a full season? If so, and we can find a CB and use Bradders supposed £6m to cover their fees/wages, life will more quickly revert to some normality
25 man squad:
Bassong Nguena, Sebastian Aymar
*Bennett, Elliott
*Bennett, Ryan
*Brady, Robert
Dorrans, Graham
*Grabban, Lewis James
Hoolahan, Wesley
*Hooper, Gary
*Howson, Jonathan Mark
*Jarvis, Matthew Thomas
*Kean, Jacob Kendall
*Lafferty, Kyle
*Martin, Russell Kenneth Alexander
Mbokani Bezua, Dieudonne
Mulumbu, Youssouf
*O'Neil, Gary Paul
Odjidja Ofoe, Vadis
*Olsson, Martin Tony Waikwa
*Rana-Jerome, Cameron Zishan
*Rudd, Declan
*Ruddy, John Thomas Gordon
Tettey, Alexander
Whittaker, Steven
*Wisdom, Andre
* denotes homegrown status.
Looks like the sale of Johnson cut the squad down sufficiently that Lafferty makes the cut, even if he might now go out on loan.
Interestingly, Bournemouth have omitted Mings and Gradel, as neither will be fit before January.
Bassong Nguena, Sebastian Aymar
*Bennett, Elliott
*Bennett, Ryan
*Brady, Robert
Dorrans, Graham
*Grabban, Lewis James
Hoolahan, Wesley
*Hooper, Gary
*Howson, Jonathan Mark
*Jarvis, Matthew Thomas
*Kean, Jacob Kendall
*Lafferty, Kyle
*Martin, Russell Kenneth Alexander
Mbokani Bezua, Dieudonne
Mulumbu, Youssouf
*O'Neil, Gary Paul
Odjidja Ofoe, Vadis
*Olsson, Martin Tony Waikwa
*Rana-Jerome, Cameron Zishan
*Rudd, Declan
*Ruddy, John Thomas Gordon
Tettey, Alexander
Whittaker, Steven
*Wisdom, Andre
* denotes homegrown status.
Looks like the sale of Johnson cut the squad down sufficiently that Lafferty makes the cut, even if he might now go out on loan.
Interestingly, Bournemouth have omitted Mings and Gradel, as neither will be fit before January.
Because as AN said every player has a value and maybe Derby offered more than the value AN placed on Johnson. You could equally say why did Derby leave it so late to make a bid. It's really not that difficult to understand.
Say I have a car that I'm really happy with, that's adequate for my needs. I bought the car for 1K, but the value to me is 2K. One day someone knocks on my door one afternoon and offers me 4k for the car. I woke up in the morning really happy with the car with no intention of selling it, but by the evening its gone and I'm in the market for a better car.
Anyway back to football, Clearly AN has a value he thinks each player is worth. He valued Johnson at less than 6m or less. Derby offered more than AN thinks Johnson is worth to him, so he speaks to Johnson. Johnson says he's interested, talks to Derby and likes what he's offered and goes. There are other variables as well i.e. not selling to a potential competitor for relegation, etc.
I'm not saying this is what happened and clearly there could be other reasons why the transfer went through, but I don't understand why just because the transfer wasn't planned or anticipated there should be something sinister going on.
I also don't see Jarvis as a direct replacement for Johnson. Clearly we were in the market players other than those we recruited and it may well be that we would have recruited Jarvis even if Johnson stayed.
Well Canario ([HASHTAG]#4450[/HASHTAG]), I look forward to seeing your answers to Rob's post ([HASHTAG]#4451[/HASHTAG])
None of this would have been an issue (for more than 24 hours) if plans had been made to identify and bring in a decent CB with the Johnson money. Many/ most fans still see this (central defence) as by far our weakest area.
So pardon my ignorance, but are we still allowed to loan in unattached players, for a month, 3 months or a full season? If so, and we can find a CB and use Bradders supposed £6m to cover their fees/wages, life will more quickly revert to some normality
Short term loans are possible for Football League Clubs but not for Premier League clubs, with one exception, if we get a goalkeeping crisis, then a short term loan for a keeper is allowed, otherwise we work with what we´ve got.
Best we sprinkle some 'invincible dust' on Bassong and Martin's shin-pads, then. Big trouble if we lose one of them for any period of time, with just sick-note Bennett as 'proper' back up
Best we sprinkle some 'invincible dust' on Bassong and Martin's shin-pads, then. Big trouble if we lose one of them for any period of time, with just sick-note Bennett as 'proper' back up
Yep, I know, that worries me too, although Wisdom is probably as comfortable at CB as at RB, but we´re not exactly filled to brimming in that department.
Well Canario ([HASHTAG]#4450[/HASHTAG]), I look forward to seeing your answers to Rob's post ([HASHTAG]#4451[/HASHTAG])
None of this would have been an issue (for more than 24 hours) if plans had been made to identify and bring in a decent CB with the Johnson money. Many/ most fans still see this (central defence) as by far our weakest area.
So pardon my ignorance, but are we still allowed to loan in unattached players, for a month, 3 months or a full season? If so, and we can find a CB and use Bradders supposed £6m to cover their fees/wages, life will more quickly revert to some normality
See http://www.not606.com/threads/transfer-thread-summer-2015.300700/page-223#post-8341336
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I'm not sure, but I think I've probably been the strongest advocate on this forum for us to recruit a new CB to replace Martin and I would have happily smashed our transfer record to achieve this. I've regularly been shot down in flames for suggesting Martin is not up to the job, although I would have kept him as cover. I really don't want to revisit my views on Martin again, but I think Johnson and Martin have been great servants for the club and one occasions there is a mountain of goodwill that gets in the way of reality.
For me it's quite clear that Johnson was down the pecking order, despite his form last season. AN started with Howson on the left of midfield while Brady was at LB. BJ only started the first game because Redmond wasn't match fit. That says to me that he wasn't even second choice for that left midfield position. We've brought in a natural left midfielder on loan to replace him - I'm not very excited about Jarvis to be honest but at least he knows the role and has a lot of experience in the premiership.
As for CM he was behind Mulumbu, Tettey, Dorrans, Howson and Hoolahan. O'neil would be used ahead of him if we were trying to see a game out, and who knows where Vadis is in the squad.
Johnson may have performed heroics last season and become a fan favourite, rightly being awarded POTS. But, that cant be allowed to gloss over the fact that he is a fairly limited footballer, before last season he couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo, passing was poor, movement not great. He isn't particularly fast either. The premiership unfortunately demands a bit more from a LM than muscle and desire.
I don't think he was up for sale but when a team comes in with an offer of £7.5m for a player that is unlikely to be getting a starting berth, I can accept that the sale had to be considered. Nobody is irreplaceable.
There is no room for sentiment in business/football.
As for CM he was behind Mulumbu, Tettey, Dorrans, Howson and Hoolahan. O'neil would be used ahead of him if we were trying to see a game out, and who knows where Vadis is in the squad.
Johnson may have performed heroics last season and become a fan favourite, rightly being awarded POTS. But, that cant be allowed to gloss over the fact that he is a fairly limited footballer, before last season he couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo, passing was poor, movement not great. He isn't particularly fast either. The premiership unfortunately demands a bit more from a LM than muscle and desire.
I don't think he was up for sale but when a team comes in with an offer of £7.5m for a player that is unlikely to be getting a starting berth, I can accept that the sale had to be considered. Nobody is irreplaceable.
There is no room for sentiment in business/football.