Transfer thread Summer 2015

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Tony_Munky_Canary said:
That's all fair comment Rob - particularly the bit about their respective goals per game ratio where I was perhaps being a bit mischieveous. But even with all that in mind I'm finding it hard to comprehend why he would have been our number one target (or even just high on our list) in terms of signing a striker this window, especialy if we're basing our scouting on his performances from more than two years ago as a lot could have happened between now and then - just ask the Wolf <ok>
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I dunno, obviously nothing is guaranteed, but perhaps AN & co had been looking at Mbokani because he is a good fit for the striker role AN likes to use (i.e. the Jerome-type target man). Perhaps they were looking for a Jerome-type player, but with a bit more pedigree and ability - an overall upgrade on our first-choice striker.

Whether Mbokani is that player remains to be seen of course, but I'm eager to see if he is.
 
I'm not sure I'd agree that Mbokani has greater pedigree than Jerome. Jerome has a number of years experience in the PL. Mbokani may play internationally but his domestic career is patchy. In the plus column he does score more goals than CJ, but it's the quality of the opposition that concerns me. Look at CJ 1 in 3 at Cardiff and ~ 1 in 2 for us last season. But PL much less!
DM at Anderlecht over 2 spells, better than 1 in 2, Dynamo Kyiv 1 in 2, but then it gets patchy 1 in 10 Monaco, 0 in 7 Wolfsburg. Can he score at a higher level?

Bah!
 
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General Melchett said:
I'm not sure I'd agree that Mbokani has greater pedigree than Jerome. Jerome has a number of years experience in the PL. Mbokani may play internationally but his domestic career is patchy. In the plus column he does score more goals than CJ, but it's the quality of the opposition that concerns me. Look at CJ 1 in 3 at Cardiff and ~ 1 in 2 for us last season. But PL much less!
DM at Anderlecht over 2 spells, better than 1 in 2, Dynamo Kyiv 1 in 2, but then it gets patchy 1 in 10 Monaco, 0 in 7 Wolfsburg. Can he score at a higher level?

Bah!
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We're singing from the same songsheet here General <ok>
 
General Melchett said:
I'm not sure I'd agree that Mbokani has greater pedigree than Jerome. Jerome has a number of years experience in the PL. Mbokani may play internationally but his domestic career is patchy. In the plus column he does score more goals than CJ, but it's the quality of the opposition that concerns me. Look at CJ 1 in 3 at Cardiff and ~ 1 in 2 for us last season. But PL much less!
DM at Anderlecht over 2 spells, better than 1 in 2, Dynamo Kyiv 1 in 2, but then it gets patchy 1 in 10 Monaco, 0 in 7 Wolfsburg. Can he score at a higher level?

Bah!
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Mbokani arguably has a better pedigree because of his international performances and his overall goals scored. We'll probably never know what went wrong in Monaco and Wolfsburg, but given that you could also look at it the opposite way - that was one poor and obviously disrupted season which he bounced back from. I really don't think too much can be read into it given that plenty of players have been very successful in the German and French leagues and still failed in the PL. Anything could happen and past performance is no guarantee of future performance!

At the end of the day, any foreign striker is a massive risk and there's got to be more than a good chance that Mbokani will not succeed with us, so I am all for urging caution. I am confident, though, that by getting him in on loan and the cut price he was in the first place, that the club has hedged off that risk. And also, at least he's got the build and style that is better-suited, for me I'm just concerned that his youtube videos don't show all the sitters he misses...

Neil's comments about him yesterday are good enough for me at this stage though - he clearly rates him as a finisher.
 
Canary Rob said:
Mbokani arguably has a better pedigree because of his international performances and his overall goals scored. We'll probably never know what went wrong in Monaco and Wolfsburg, but given that you could also look at it the opposite way - that was one poor and obviously disrupted season which he bounced back from. I really don't think too much can be read into it given that plenty of players have been very successful in the German and French leagues and still failed in the PL. Anything could happen and past performance is no guarantee of future performance!

At the end of the day, any foreign striker is a massive risk and there's got to be more than a good chance that Mbokani will not succeed with us, so I am all for urging caution. I am confident, though, that by getting him in on loan and the cut price he was in the first place, that the club has hedged off that risk. And also, at least he's got the build and style that is better-suited, for me I'm just concerned that his youtube videos don't show all the sitters he misses...

Neil's comments about him yesterday are good enough for me at this stage though - he clearly rates him as a finisher.
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Have any been rubbish in the German and French leagues and then done well in the PL? I'd say that was more of a marker.
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
That's all fair comment Rob - particularly the bit about their respective goals per game ratio where I was perhaps being a bit mischieveous. But even with all that in mind I'm finding it hard to comprehend why he would have been our number one target (or even just high on our list) in terms of signing a striker this window, especialy if we're basing our scouting on his performances from more than two years ago as a lot could have happened between now and then - just ask the Wolf <ok>
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Given our budget and his cut price, as well as how early we were linked with him, as unlikely as it sound I think it adds up that he was identified as our number one target. Afobe can't have been, otherwise we would have bid that way much earlier (and I feel we might have got him, though we would have had competition from Newcastle and the like which might have scuppered it).

I very much doubt the club is foolish enough to base all the scouting on two years ago, I just mean that would have been where they did a lot of the detail, which would mean they only need to go over it again rather than completely reassess. Sounds frustratingly like doing it on the cheap? I'd say that's the story of our transfer window! <laugh>

We'll probably never know whether he was our number one target though.
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
Have any been rubbish in the German and French leagues and then done well in the PL? I'd say that was more of a marker.
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I'll have a think. Lots of British players do struggle abroad (which is part of the reason it barely ever goes the opposite way!) But what I mean is I don't really think you can take much of "a marker" from any failures in certain leagues. It's a question of why they were successful and whether they can repeat that <ok>

Mbokani, from what little I've seen and from what commentators have said, has the style and physique to succeed in the PL. I've no idea if that style and physique is unsuited to the German or French leagues
 
Cameron Jerome has made 181 appearances in the Prem and scored 29 goals. Is that 'failure' (historically speaking) at Prem level? Possibly. Hopefully he'll improve, but that isn't a good goal-scoring record for a striker. Otherwise, he has only scored regularly in the Championship (although he has made a few appearances in the Europa League).

We're yet to see what Mbokani can do in the Prem, but he has scored at an impressive rate in 2 top leagues (yes, not Prem standard, but still), made 21 appearances in European competition (not including qualifiers), AND scored at an impressive rate for a national side that isn't exactly studded with talented players to support him.

I reckon it could then be argued, that Jerome's 'pedigree' isn't as impressive as Mbokani's.
 
JKCanary said:
Cameron Jerome has made 181 appearances in the Prem and scored 29 goals. Is that 'failure' (historically speaking) at Prem level? Possibly. Hopefully he'll improve, but that isn't a good goal-scoring record for a striker. Otherwise, he has only scored regularly in the Championship (although he has made a few appearances in the Europa League).

We're yet to see what Mbokani can do in the Prem, but he has scored at an impressive rate in 2 top leagues (yes, not Prem standard, but still), made 21 appearances in European competition (not including qualifiers), AND scored at an impressive rate for a national side that isn't exactly studded with talented players to support him.

I reckon it could then be argued, that Jerome's 'pedigree' isn't as impressive as Mbokani's.
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I wouldn't argue with most of that, and I'm also not as confident as others are that CJ's goal return will be in double figures this season. He will offer plenty yes, he'll be a nuisance to defend against and will put himself about fr sure, but I'm not convinced he has enough goals in him at this level, particularly as we've just lost a goalscoring midfielder, and so was hoping for more than Mbokani if I'm being completely honest.

As I keep saying though I would love the big man to prove me wrong!
 
I dunno actually, I saw a lot of excitment on here about the prospect of signing Mbokani from quite a few posters this summer, yourself included if you don't mind me saying. Of course this optimism may well turn out to be completely justified and my concerns unfounded, and if so I hereby give you licence to shout "TOLD YOU SO" at me as loud as you like!
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
I dunno actually, I saw a lot of excitment on here about the prospect of signing Mbokani from quite a few posters this summer, yourself included if you don't mind me saying. Of course this optimism may well turn out to be completely justified and my concerns unfounded, and if so I hereby give you licence to shout "TOLD YOU SO" at me as loud as you like!
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The BBC article about us signing Ricky in 2013:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21877134

117. Posted byTony_Munky_Canary
on 23 Mar 2013 21:13
This is a fantastic signing for the club, and hopefully shows our intent to develop a more expansive and entertaining style of play under Crissy Hootun next season. We surely wouldn't be splashing out potentially triple our previous record transfer fee to then deny him any decent service like we have done this year.
All part of the evolution of NCFC, a superb piece of business, well done McNally!


You've gone all cynical in your old age, Tony! :emoticon-0105-wink:

And yes, I reserve the right to post that quote whenever I like! :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
JKCanary said:
The BBC article about us signing Ricky in 2013:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21877134

117. Posted byTony_Munky_Canary
on 23 Mar 2013 21:13
This is a fantastic signing for the club, and hopefully shows our intent to develop a more expansive and entertaining style of play under Crissy Hootun next season. We surely wouldn't be splashing out potentially triple our previous record transfer fee to then deny him any decent service like we have done this year.
All part of the evolution of NCFC, a superb piece of business, well done McNally!


You've gone all cynical in your old age, Tony! :emoticon-0105-wink:

And yes, I reserve the right to post that quote whenever I like! :emoticon-0102-bigsm
Click to expand...

Yeah somebody dug that up last week - and just goes to show that even I can be wrong on the very, very rare occasion <laugh>
 
Surely the logic is obvious? Mbokani has a similar style to CJ and was seen as competition / backup for him. Afobe was more in the style of Grabban ie highly mobile and quick and therefore an upgrade for him / competition. Seems to me AN likes to keep it simple and has a policy of a plan B approach should plan A not be working sometimes starting with Grabs and switching to CJ and sometimes the opposite. I believe we targeted BOTH Afobe and Mbokani but failed with Afobe when Dicko got his injury. Simples
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
I dunno actually, I saw a lot of excitment on here about the prospect of signing Mbokani from quite a few posters this summer, yourself included if you don't mind me saying. Of course this optimism may well turn out to be completely justified and my concerns unfounded, and if so I hereby give you licence to shout "TOLD YOU SO" at me as loud as you like!
Click to expand...

I meant Afobe as the one I hoped for and I consider him "more". I also thought we'd sign two strikers.

With all due respect, I think you've misunderstood me - just because I've consistently defended him since you first registered that you didn't think much of him a couple of weeks ago, doesn't mean I'd say I'm excited about Mbokani.

I have had him on the radar since the rumour first came up a good couple of months ago and (as you said yourself with Brady) just because you weren't aware of him, doesn't mean he's not good. At the time, I assumed he would be our second striker signing as well as a main one, with him being back-up to Jerome. From what I've seen since )i.e. limited youtube vids...), I'm reasonably confident that Mbokani is an upgrade on Jerome. I also like the fact that the club identified him early and worked on it, which gives me far more comfort that they've done their homework than if we'd rushed through a purchase at the last minute. But as I've repeatedly said, the key thing is finishing and that's my key concern with him. I've no idea.

As I've also repeatedly said, any signing from abroad is a big risk. I'm certainly not massively excited with him and certainly not with our transfer window, as I've made clear a number of times (one of which brought it all down on my head!! <laugh>). But I'm surprised that you're writing him off so early having seen no more (I assume) than I have.
 
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