Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Bobby's has regressed over the past 2 years. He's definitely past it now and should not be a regular starter for us. I've never been too fussed about his goals but it's his link up play and creativity which have also massively suffered. He's offering nothing.

i agree his link up this season hasn’t been brilliant. But again I think it’s harsh to judge anyone properly on this season. Been so many poor performances all around and so many factors could have contributed, no fans, long season with no breaks, no real rotation due to injuries. We actually saw for a few games Bobby up his game when Jota came in and scored a few, Jota then got injured and Bobby form dropped again. Maybe he needs that competition, maybe he needs that rest.

the midfield behind changes, did that impact him? We’ve said all year how the defence changing has impacted our attacking play, maybe that’s affected Bobby?

Im not saying he can’t be uograded and we shouldn’t look to improve, just think his form last year was decent and he’s not only one this year to dip.

donwe get rid of mane, Robbo, Trent, Fabinho who have all under performed this year as well?

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Also saying he offers nothing is stupid. Of course he offers something. He’s scored 8 goals this year he scored last minute winner v spurs. He scored 2 against United last week... scored the opener v Burnley at a crucial time.

I know you do like to exaggerate and tend to use terms that are a bit OTT (Phillips is trash for example).

 

[jaffaSlot]

Firmino just doesn't have as much influence on the match as he has done in the past, which makes his finishing and lack of goals stand out further.

Still think you could put him anywhere on the pitch and he would do a job, don't see us ever offloading him until he comes to end of his career or decides to go back home

 

[saintanton]

When was the last time we had a traditional style CF and it was actually successful?

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

When was the last time we had a traditional style CF and it was actually successful?

Heskey? And he was only really successful in provided chances for Owen.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Its exactly why you said

‘If bobby could still do what you described reliably then we'd not be scraping 4th and would not be talking about changing’

And you are conflating it with other issues that have put this side way off city and out of the CL etc.

I know what I am saying thanks I am talking about the central striker role.

I'm not talking about wijnaldum in midfield, not talking about mane, not talking about the obvious CB issue.

If we could score a bloody goal when we needed to in jan and feb or even v real we would be better off. they all sat off laughing knowing we couldn't break it down.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

When was the last time we had a traditional style CF and it was actually successful?

whats successful to you?

also what's a "traditional CF"

2001 had two "strikers"
2005. had a striker
2006 had two stikers in the fa cup final
2007-09 with rafa torres
2011-14 with suarez. do you consider him not a traditional CF?

Do we want to go back to ian rush and john Aldridge or would Robbie fowler be considered a success?

 

[saintanton]

whats successful to you?
also what's a "traditional CF"
2001 had two "strikers"
2005. had a striker
2006 had two stikers in the fa cup final
2007-09 with rafa torres
2011-14 with suarez. do you consider him not a traditional CF?
Do we want to go back to ian rush and john Aldridge or would Robbie fowler be considered a success?

They were all rubbish.
What is a traditional CF is a good question. I tend to think of a target man when I hear that term - someone to hold up long balls and get on the end of crosses - and we haven't had that for a while. Of course, it's well known that I'm past it, and terms like false 9 are just gibberish to me, but I don't see us playing a game that suits a traditional CF.
I wouldn't have called Suarez one - that guy is a one-off.
Central strikers tend to hog the goals, and our wingers would be relegated to suppliers a lot of the time and it would change the entire dynamic of the team.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

They were all rubbish.
What is a traditional CF is a good question. I tend to think of a target man when I hear that term - someone to hold up long balls and get on the end of crosses - and we haven't had that for a while. Of course, it's well known that I'm past it, and terms like false 9 are just gibberish to me, but I don't see us playing a game that suits a traditional CF.
I wouldn't have called Suarez one - that guy is a one-off.
Central strikers tend to hog the goals, and our wingers would be relegated to suppliers a lot of the time and it would change the entire dynamic of the team.

torres was a striker 100%. So was strurridge but so was Owen. they are all imo different but what they have is the cool head and ice in the veins.

If you had to bet your house for them to finish you had a fairly good chance to still have a roof over your head after the game.

We had owen AND heskey, or torres and kuyt and rieira and gerrard behind or folwer and rush.

the biggest mistake we made in 20 years was carroll. well maybe second only to balotelli. we instantly didn't know what to do with them.

having a guy with a real eye for goal doesn't mean they have to take away form the others. Its how we evolve.

We said losing coutinho would hurt us and we got better. We thought losing squarez would kill us (it did ut mainly through terrible decisiosn)

theres always another playr, I would perfer to find one that scores rather than a werner

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Or we do what city does

I am still thinking on the trent dilemma. in the past 10 games he has stepped up to the responsibility and refused to accept a bad season. but he's not just playing as a RB. he is going all over the place. Sometimes it is counter productive but our blasted CMs are standing back and letting him do the job. It could be time that we see thiago and fabinho with trent in midfield. we don't have the RB to let it happen though.

No thanks to that

Trent is a monster at right back - I just dont see any reason for moving him into midfield because he is already influencing games from that position. His xAssists last season was around 0.22 and this season it's at 0.19. The last 7 or so games, it's at 0.5! He has really stepped up.

I also like the link up down our right side - Trent, Thiago and Salah. They've been so good.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

No thanks to that

Trent is a monster at right back - I just dont see any reason for moving him into midfield because he is already influencing games from that position. His xAssists last season was around 0.22 and this season it's at 0.19. The last 7 or so games, it's at 0.5! He has really stepped up.

I also like the link up down our right side - Trent, Thiago and Salah. They've been so good.

Hes stepped it up as he is running though midfield. Taking the game by the scruff of the neck almost

Hes doing less wide as a result and that does through the balance off. If henderson were there I reckon he would go wider but thiago is a central player and doesn't.

The main thing is this; wijnaldum is off. Frankly I'm so frustrated watching him I wont miss his good traits till he is gone. We need to replace him somehow and right now jones isnt at the level so there is another opportunity here to evolve more.

Henderson fabinho thiago.

Maybe Jones can be the 60 minute sub there but itd be nice to bring something in that's different.

 

[saintanton]

torres was a striker 100%. So was strurridge but so was Owen. they are all imo different but what they have is the cool head and ice in the veins.

If you had to bet your house for them to finish you had a fairly good chance to still have a roof over your head after the game.

We had owen AND heskey, or torres and kuyt and rieira and gerrard behind or folwer and rush.

the biggest mistake we made in 20 years was carroll. well maybe second only to balotelli. we instantly didn't know what to do with them.

having a guy with a real eye for goal doesn't mean they have to take away form the others. Its how we evolve.

We said losing coutinho would hurt us and we got better. We thought losing squarez would kill us (it did ut mainly through terrible decisiosn)

theres always another playr, I would perfer to find one that scores rather than a werner

Benteke was another mistake.
I wasn't one of those who thought losing Coutinho would be a disaster. He was a good player, but not integral imo.
Too much running up and down the 20yd line looking for a chance to shoot. They were great when they came off, but I wanted him to drive into the box and either make things happen or win a pen. He had too many indifferent games for me to think of him as a true great.
Suarez was a loss whichever way you look upon it - didn't even have to feed him.

 

[Zanjinho]

i agree his link up this season hasn’t been brilliant. But again I think it’s harsh to judge anyone properly on this season. Been so many poor performances all around and so many factors could have contributed, no fans, long season with no breaks, no real rotation due to injuries. We actually saw for a few games Bobby up his game when Jota came in and scored a few, Jota then got injured and Bobby form dropped again. Maybe he needs that competition, maybe he needs that rest.

the midfield behind changes, did that impact him? We’ve said all year how the defence changing has impacted our attacking play, maybe that’s affected Bobby?

Im not saying he can’t be uograded and we shouldn’t look to improve, just think his form last year was decent and he’s not only one this year to dip.

donwe get rid of mane, Robbo, Trent, Fabinho who have all under performed this year as well?

A different defensive approach too, this eliminated his best asset; pressing.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

i agree his link up this season hasn’t been brilliant. But again I think it’s harsh to judge anyone properly on this season. Been so many poor performances all around and so many factors could have contributed, no fans, long season with no breaks, no real rotation due to injuries. We actually saw for a few games Bobby up his game when Jota came in and scored a few, Jota then got injured and Bobby form dropped again. Maybe he needs that competition, maybe he needs that rest.

the midfield behind changes, did that impact him? We’ve said all year how the defence changing has impacted our attacking play, maybe that’s affected Bobby?

Im not saying he can’t be uograded and we shouldn’t look to improve, just think his form last year was decent and he’s not only one this year to dip.

donwe get rid of mane, Robbo, Trent, Fabinho who have all under performed this year as well?

My comments aren't just based on this season - there is almost 2 years worth of data which indicate he is naturally regressing. The Bobby this season isn't that far from last season - difference is that underperformance this season isn't masked by winning the league.

And that's why I'm not judging Mane, Robbo and Trent (and most of the team) based on this year alone because their underperformance can be explained - Robbo has been flogged with no rest, Mane's form dipped after he got COVID, and Trent got COVID earlier on the season. I wouldn't say Fabinho's form suffered - I think he's one of the leading candidates for player of the year.

 

[Bumps]

I think the team has had to take to another style
The plans went out the window with all the injuries (not just VVD)
We will see what happens Sunday - with hindsight easy to say what we should have done

My only concern is we do seem to have a number of very brittle players

we don’t have a deep squad contrary to what pundits were banging on about but we have a very good first team.

everything has been knocked out of balance so hard to judge anyone but I think if klopp thinks the squad is fine we should trust him

our faith has been earned
Whilst I am pessimistic naturally to avoid heartache I totally trust those running the football side atm

the only time we have spent big under klopp is when we have sold big

I am happy to give them all another more normal year to see what happens
I think this year was just the drop that had to naturally come

will think more after Sunday lol

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

torres was a striker 100%. So was strurridge but so was Owen. they are all imo different but what they have is the cool head and ice in the veins.

If you had to bet your house for them to finish you had a fairly good chance to still have a roof over your head after the game.

We had owen AND heskey, or torres and kuyt and rieira and gerrard behind or folwer and rush.

the biggest mistake we made in 20 years was carroll. well maybe second only to balotelli. we instantly didn't know what to do with them.

having a guy with a real eye for goal doesn't mean they have to take away form the others. Its how we evolve.

We said losing coutinho would hurt us and we got better. We thought losing squarez would kill us (it did ut mainly through terrible decisiosn)

theres always another playr, I would perfer to find one that scores rather than a werner

Again, you said players like Torres and Owen have ice in their veins but they are literally no difference to what the inside forwards that we have bought (Jota, Mane and Salah).

As per the below table, shot volume, shots on target, conversion rate are all very similar. However one player is seen as an ice cold striker and the others are wasteful.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[saintanton]

I think the team has had to take to another style
The plans went out the window with all the injuries (not just VVD)
We will see what happens Sunday - with hindsight easy to say what we should have done

My only concern is we do seem to have a number of very brittle players

we don’t have a deep squad contrary to what pundits were banging on about but we have a very good first team.

everything has been knocked out of balance so hard to judge anyone but I think if klopp thinks the squad is fine we should trust him

our faith has been earned
Whilst I am pessimistic naturally to avoid heartache I totally trust those running the football side atm

the only time we have spent big under klopp is when we have sold big

I am happy to give them all another more normal year to see what happens
I think this year was just the drop that had to naturally come

will think more after Sunday lol

I've been saying for a long time that we need to get this strange season over with and take stock. It's hard to judge the relative merits of the team under the circumstances they - and most other clubs - have been under.
I feel a lot of our fans suffer from the modern trend of wanting instant results and looking for radical changes when they don't happen.
I can't recall a time when making wholesale changes brought positive results for us, and I can't see it succeeding this time. We'll have some things forced upon us - the CB issue, Gini is almost certain to leave, perhaps Matip too. Milner is on his last legs and we don't know whether a handful of others will regain the fitness and/or form they had previously. By the time we've rectified the pressing problems there'll be little room for anything more.
It's obvious that the decision makers favour evolution over revolution so I think those expecting the big changes they want are going to be disappointed. Whatever happens, I think we can safely say we won't be throwing the baby out with the bath-water and voluntarily getting rid of those who still might have an important role to play.
Klopp is a man-manager, so I'm sure he'll be confident of getting the most out of what he has.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Again, you said players like Torres and Owen have ice in their veins but they are literally no difference to what the inside forwards that we have bought (Jota, Mane and Salah).

As per the below table, shot volume, shots on target, conversion rate are all very similar. However one player is seen as an ice cold striker and the others are wasteful.

You must log in or register to see images

Literally you.need badly to get your head out of the spreadsheets if you think those players are in any way similar.

Again.

If you need to bet your house on mane scoring would you be happy?

I sincerely doubt it.

On the other hand torres and owen in on goal? They were not ones to miss.

Manes strengths have been work and getting on the end of trents supply . Hes been huge for us but he misses the target a huge amount.

Spreadsheets are lovely. I love a stat but theres clearly a.maissve difference in scoring ability here.

It really shows up when you are at the highest level and not handed 20 chances to blaze over.

I think the chelsea game would be a good example 0-1. Chelsea stopped even trying to play and just lumped it at werner to run in second half.

Or real.madrid. again barely tried to attack and risk anything second leg.

We had a couple chances but only a couple. That's when real finishers count.

So no mane and jota and even salah are nothing like these finishers.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Liverpool hold a strong interest in Ibrahima Konaté who has a £34m release clause which, currently, must be paid in one installment. For a club which prefers to stagger transfer payments over a number of years this makes matters more complex." [HASHTAG]#awlfc[/HASHTAG] [@_pauljoyce]

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Lol MITO - the stats are literally right there in front of you. If anything, you're doing a disservice to the likes of Mane and Salah because they have been operating at elite levels for years. You can't accept that players like Owen, Kane, Torres etc take a lot of shots and also miss a lot as well. At the same level as our lads (Bobby aside).