Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Imagine if we binned all of our new signings who didn't hit the ground running ...
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Works both ways though Jimmy, you're always looking to bin some players a much improved Lovren as a good example, with Matip it's a good partnership that works but you wont have it.

As for Karius I'm backing our keeper and have faith that he'll improve.
 
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luvgonzo said:
Works both ways though Jimmy, you're always looking to bin some players a much improved Lovren as a good example, with Matip it's a good partnership that works but you wont have it.

As for Karius I'm backing our keeper and have faith that he'll improve.
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Nope - Lallana is an example of clear improvement to a level which is good enough for the first team.

Lovren has improved no doubt when he has a decent midfield ahead of him and Matip next to him - but that's comparing him to his old self - so he's improved from being dog **** to average. He's still not good enough - in a defence with Lucas and Milner, Lovren still came out as the worst. That's unacceptable.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I think if you look at our squad, you'll find that the majority took a while to settle in.
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And did those that needed time all go into the first team irrespective of whether they were ready for it or not?
Shall we put Trent and Ben Woodburn and anyone else in the U23's in right now because they show potential for the future?
Sorry Jimmy but this attitude is suicidal, they have to be ready for the job right now, not at some indeterminate point later on - especially when improvement is based on speculation anyway.
Also, an outfield player can be carried, to a limited extent, a keeper simply cannot.

Let me ask you a straight question - do you think Karius has shown that he's good enough? Not potential, not wishful thinking, but right here and now based on what he's shown thus far?
 
KENNY_KLOPP_KING said:
Would you make a move for someone like Hart then? A lot depends on who is available that is already at a level good enough for us. There aren't too many world-class keepers around tbh
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This is the problem.
I doubt we'll go for another keeper in reality - my adding it to your list was just a bit of a joke. Klopp has put his faith in Karius and is presumably expecting him to come good. I hope he does, but I'm not seeing much sign of it atm, sadly.
I'm not usually pessimistic, but I'm worried we're going to lose too many points waiting for it to happen - in a season when we appear to have a genuine chance of competing.
 
saintKlopp said:
And did those that needed time all go into the first team irrespective of whether they were ready for it or not?
Shall we put Trent and Ben Woodburn and anyone else in the U23's in right now because they show potential for the future?
Sorry Jimmy but this attitude is suicidal, they have to be ready for the job right now, not at some indeterminate point later on - especially when improvement is based on speculation anyway.
Also, an outfield player can be carried, to a limited extent, a keeper simply cannot.

Let me ask you a straight question - do you think Karius has shown that he's good enough? Not potential, not wishful thinking, but right here and now based on what he's shown thus far?
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That's not a good comparison - you're talking about a 22 year old who has shown a lot of ability in another league, replacing an underperforming keeper.

I agree with your sentiment that we need players to be good now but are you going to drop everyone who has a bad run? Sturridge hasn't scored a PL goal - is he rubbish? I wish you were ruthless with some of the other players lol.

Karius has been poor - he's shown glimpses and he's made errors - all expected from a young keeper in a new league. Reina and De Gea are examples of quality keepers who struggled initially. The thing is that they were given a long run and a chance to develop.

But who else have we got? Mignolet - there is a reason why we bought Karius in the first place and it's because Migs is ****. We persisted with him for 3 years but happy to bin Karius after 10 games. It's another example of how some players are perceived in the media - Karius makes 2-3 very good saves against Sunderland and came off his line quickly (when it was 0-0) however, the focus was on the infamous goal kick which went out for a goal kick.

If Karius continues to struggle after a year or two, then yeah we should look to move him on. But he's one of the best goalkeeping talents in the game - that's the reason why I'll persist with him.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Nope - Lallana is an example of clear improvement to a level which is good enough for the first team.

Lovren has improved no doubt when he has a decent midfield ahead of him and Matip next to him - but that's comparing him to his old self - so he's improved from being dog **** to average. He's still not good enough - in a defence with Lucas and Milner, Lovren still came out as the worst. That's unacceptable.
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Lovren has improved to become a first choice player alongside Matip.

Lallana has improved to become a key player.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
That's not a good comparison - you're talking about a 22 year old who has shown a lot of ability in another league, replacing an underperforming keeper.

I agree with your sentiment that we need players to be good now but are you going to drop everyone who has a bad run? Sturridge hasn't scored a PL goal - is he rubbish? I wish you were ruthless with some of the other players lol.

Karius has been poor - he's shown glimpses and he's made errors - all expected from a young keeper in a new league. Reina and De Gea are examples of quality keepers who struggled initially. The thing is that they were given a long run and a chance to develop.

But who else have we got? Mignolet - there is a reason why we bought Karius in the first place and it's because Migs is ****. We persisted with him for 3 years but happy to bin Karius after 10 games. It's another example of how some players are perceived in the media - Karius makes 2-3 very good saves against Sunderland and came off his line quickly (when it was 0-0) however, the focus was on the infamous goal kick which went out for a goal kick.

If Karius continues to struggle after a year or two, then yeah we should look to move him on. But he's one of the best goalkeeping talents in the game - that's the reason why I'll persist with him.
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Nine games
 
maybe we should all agree that for the next month Lovren is the best LCB we have got and if klopp buys someone he buys someone.

As such he's clearly first team player until such time as klopp changes it.

same for karius.
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
That's not a good comparison - you're talking about a 22 year old who has shown a lot of ability in another league, replacing an underperforming keeper.

I agree with your sentiment that we need players to be good now but are you going to drop everyone who has a bad run? Sturridge hasn't scored a PL goal - is he rubbish? I wish you were ruthless with some of the other players lol.

Karius has been poor - he's shown glimpses and he's made errors - all expected from a young keeper in a new league. Reina and De Gea are examples of quality keepers who struggled initially. The thing is that they were given a long run and a chance to develop.

But who else have we got? Mignolet - there is a reason why we bought Karius in the first place and it's because Migs is ****. We persisted with him for 3 years but happy to bin Karius after 10 games. It's another example of how some players are perceived in the media - Karius makes 2-3 very good saves against Sunderland and came off his line quickly (when it was 0-0) however, the focus was on the infamous goal kick which went out for a goal kick.

If Karius continues to struggle after a year or two, then yeah we should look to move him on. But he's one of the best goalkeeping talents in the game - that's the reason why I'll persist with him.
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This sort of emotionally charged language makes debate difficult. Migs is certainly not **** - he's not good enough for a team who want to challenge for the title but there's a world of difference between the two. You're exaggerating to make a point. Also "bin Karius" - what does that mean? To bin someone means to get rid of them in my book and I haven't suggested that, just that he's not ready to take over based on his current showing.
He needs work. It might well be better for him to gain his experience, make his mistakes, in the first team - but where does that leave us and our season? We can't afford that luxury.
"Very good saves" , really? I've seen nothing more than routine saves so far.

I'm not writing him off, that's how other people are twisting my argument - I'm saying that for whatever reason he simply isn't good enough at the moment, at even the basic stuff, and if he doesn't improve very quickly he will lose us points.

I notice you skirted round my direct question, btw.
 
saintKlopp said:
This sort of emotionally charged language makes debate difficult. Migs is certainly not **** - he's not good enough for a team who want to challenge for the title but there's a world of difference between the two. You're exaggerating to make a point. Also "bin Karius" - what does that mean? To bin someone means to get rid of them in my book and I haven't suggested that, just that he's not ready to take over based on his current showing.
He needs work. It might well be better for him to gain his experience, make his mistakes, in the first team - but where does that leave us and our season? We can't afford that luxury.
"Very good saves" , really? I've seen nothing more than routine saves so far.

I'm not writing him off, that's how other people are twisting my argument - I'm saying that for whatever reason he simply isn't good enough at the moment, at even the basic stuff, and if he doesn't improve very quickly he will lose us points.

I notice you skirted round my direct question, btw.
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Exactly why I don't like seeing players labelled as average. Average of what exactly?
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
That's not a good comparison - you're talking about a 22 year old who has shown a lot of ability in another league, replacing an underperforming keeper.

I agree with your sentiment that we need players to be good now but are you going to drop everyone who has a bad run? Sturridge hasn't scored a PL goal - is he rubbish? I wish you were ruthless with some of the other players lol.

Karius has been poor - he's shown glimpses and he's made errors - all expected from a young keeper in a new league. Reina and De Gea are examples of quality keepers who struggled initially. The thing is that they were given a long run and a chance to develop.

But who else have we got? Mignolet - there is a reason why we bought Karius in the first place and it's because Migs is ****. We persisted with him for 3 years but happy to bin Karius after 10 games. It's another example of how some players are perceived in the media - Karius makes 2-3 very good saves against Sunderland and came off his line quickly (when it was 0-0) however, the focus was on the infamous goal kick which went out for a goal kick.

If Karius continues to struggle after a year or two, then yeah we should look to move him on. But he's one of the best goalkeeping talents in the game - that's the reason why I'll persist with him.
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Regarding paraphraph 4, it's a keepers job to make saves. Yeah praise him for the good saves, but it's not like Mig or any other keeper hasn't made saves.

Its no good a keeper saving 4/5 shots if he's then going to drop a dolly and concede.

Great keepers pull off the odd great save, but it's the simple stuff they do on a consistent basis that makes them great.

Keepers will always be judged differently to outfield players as any error they make will usually be more costly, but all keepers will Be judged the same.

Karius us is no different from Mig ATM. Both pull off the odd decent save, but let themselves down occasionally with a silly simple mistake and that then gets punished. Yeah Karius is young so should and hopefully will improve, but should he be kept in the firing line and risk damaging all confidence?

Everyone references de he's but he came out of the team for a while in that middle sticky patch. Maybe a break for Karius to learn away from the pressure of the media and fans wouldn't do him any harm.
 
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When Adam Lallana came he was getting stick day in day out, now most of our supporters like him. Players performances also
depend on their management.
 
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