Tottenham under Levy

[remembercolinlee]

There was a lot of disagreement on the transfer thread as the window ended based around the lack of spending and what this meant.

I thought we should have a thread for the discussion so will try and give a point of view to start it off.

There seems to be two main points of disagreement.

1) We need to spend big on 1 or 2 marquee signings to go to the next level

2) That under Levy we have a negative or small spend as he is too concerned with running spurs as a business.

On the first point I would say that this is true but (there was always goung to be one) these players are already at a massive club and are completely unavailable...on the very rare occassion one becomes available we simply can not financially compete with Chelsea, United, City or the European giants who bid for them.

On the second point it is not the case.

Our last 17 yrs spending (since Levy became our Chairman) is:

01/02 £25.25m spent £8.78m in
02/03 £9.45m spent £1.22m in
03/04 £26.78m spent £1.58m in
04/05 £42.41m spent £9.45m in
05/06 £32.86m spent £20.39m in
06/07 £54.90m spent £34.79m in
07/08 £84.74m spent £20.30m in
08/09 £128.21m spent £79.25m in
09/10 £36.27m spent £28.53m in
10/11 £23.94m spent £2.64m in
11/12 £8.51m spent £38.93m in
12/13 £65.93m spent £61m in
13/14 £109.69m spent £121.88m in
14/15 £43.62m spent £39.74m in
15/16 £63.90 spent £78.82m in
16/17 £75.24m spent £47.07m in
17/18 £109.35 spent £93.42m in

Spurs have spent a total of £941m and raised £687.79m in sales

In the past 4 years under Pochettino we have spent over £292m and raised £257m

Since Redknapp took over 10 years ago we have spent £660m
and raised £590m

We have spent more than we have raised 14 times out of the 17 seasons

Figures from
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/alletransfers/verein/148

These figures show that we normally spend more than we make and actually spend quite a lot...both facts which are not widely known.

Some have said that we need to buy better but our recent list of buys are since Bale left in 2013 are ...


wrong buys...

Paulinio...lost £7m
Soldado...lost £16m
Fryers...even
Chiriches...lost £4m
Fazio...made £3m
Yedlin...made £1m
njie...broke even
Janssen...n/a...cost £17m
GNK...n/a...cost £11m
Sissoko...n/a...cost £30m
Llorente...n/a...cost £11m
Aurier...n/a...cost £23m

loss £23m

useful buys
Capoue lost £1.5m
Wimmer made £13m
Stamboulie made £6m
Foyth n/a...cost £8m

profit £17.5m

good buys
Eriksen n/a...paid £12.5m
Chadli made £6m
Lamela n/a...paid £25.75m
Davies n/a...paid £10m
Vorm n/a...paid £5m
Dier n/a...paid £4m
Dele n/a...paid £5m
Trippier...paid £3.5m
Toby ...paid £12.5
Son ...paid £22m
Wanyama n/a...paid £11m
Sanchez...paid £42 including add ons
Gazzaniga...paid 3m
moura...n/a paid £25 including add ons

total cost of thos bought who are still spurs players £281m.

we have also made money on loans from GNK, Janssen, Njie and Yedlin.


so 12 unsuccesful signings...only Sissoko was a WTF signing imho...
I do not recall anyone complaining about Soldado, Paulinio, GNK, Njie, Llorente or Aurier...I think I remember people not knowing about the others.

When you look at the successes...who honestly knew Dier, Eriksen, Trippier, Davies, Son, Dele, would all be a permanent fixture in the first team?
That lot cost a total of £56m.

I make it 12 failures and 4 useful and 14 good or very good...doesn't seem that awful to me...thats around a 60% success rate which is as good as most and better than a lot.

I think we have some interesting discussions on the board and thought this deserved it's own area so it did not get lost on the transfer thread as this is a wider debate.

 

[Spurm]

Let’s have the figures for the teams we’re up against. We need to put our net spend into perspective.

We’re over performing right now. Credit has to go to Levy for that. We’re over performing due to our transfer business (and Kane). So that is another baffling reason why we chose to sit this one out.
In general though the teams that spend the most money, be it wages or fees, are the teams that do better

 

[Spurm]

The excuses for not spending are gone. We played at Wembley last year and we have the new stadium and sky high ticket prices this season
The board/Levy confirmed the stadium finances had no effect on the team. So let’s leave that out or admit he lied

 

[Spurlock]

It's about the timing...this summer was the time...Levy ballsed it up. Let's hope we get zero Injuries to our first team squad. I'm happy enough with no signings if that happens...if not then our paper thin squad will get exposed.

Levy is a business man not a footballing man ..it's a shame he can't be both with the same kind of zest...his philosophy is holding us back.

Still can't believe we would have gone into administration if we spent some money on neccesery acquisitions. We are not 5 year old kids that want a shiny new player for the sake of it...we could have genuinely done with strengthening.

 

[deedub93]

Sugar bought Spurs for £1 yes one Fekking pound. That is how much our beloved club was worth due to financial mismanagement. We nearly went out of business. A managers parting words were 'there once was a football club here'. I used to be happy when we were not involved in a relegation struggle.

Sugar could not take the club forward and sold it to ENIC for £75 million. A nice profit but not without investing a bit of his own time and money. A lot of fans are anti Sugar, I am not, without him we might have disappeared.

ENIC took over. We have gone from a roller-coaster team, doing well one minute to fekking up the next to being one of the top clubs in the country, or even Europe whilst maintaining a strong financial footing.

Our training facilities have gone from cross country running around Cuffley, via a sh!te hole in Chigwell, to a state of the art training centre, so good that Brazil chose to use it for their world cup preparations. ENIC financed that.

We have constructed the best stadium in the UK, possibly in Europe, which is designed to generate income, which will be reinvested in the club in one way or another. ENIC have arranged finance for that.

Poch has said that if in this window we sign players, they must improve the team, otherwise he is happy with what we have. Clearly he does not want average dross, unfortunately it didn't happen this window but not wasting money on dross is likely to mean that more money will be available in the future.

Our rivals will no longer do business with us, they are worried, they are scared of us. Even Real Madrid would rather sell players to Chavski. Before ENIC took over Real Madrid would not have viewed us a rivals.

We have secured the services of most of our best players and are now paying them on a par with most other top clubs.

Our club now has a firm financial footing to move forward, Rome wasn't built in a day.

SO WHAT DID THE FEKKING ROMANS DO FOR US. Apart from the roads, and the aqueducts, and the education, and law and order etc. etc.

 

[Spur of the Moment]

Sugar bought Spurs for £1 yes one Fekking pound. That is how much our beloved club was worth due to financial mismanagement. We nearly went out of business. A managers parting words were 'there once was a football club here'. I used to be happy when we were not involved in a relegation struggle.

Sugar could not take the club forward and sold it to ENIC for £75 million. A nice profit but not without investing a bit of his own time and money. A lot of fans are anti Sugar, I am not, without him we might have disappeared.

ENIC took over. We have gone from a roller-coaster team, doing well one minute to fekking up the next to being one of the top clubs in the country, or even Europe whilst maintaining a strong financial footing.

Our training facilities have gone from cross country running around Cuffley, via a sh!te hole in Chigwell, to a state of the art training centre, so good that Brazil chose to use it for their world cup preparations. ENIC financed that.

We have constructed the best stadium in the UK, possibly in Europe, which is designed to generate income, which will be reinvested in the club in one way or another. ENIC have arranged finance for that.

Poch has said that if in this window we sign players, they must improve the team, otherwise he is happy with what we have. Clearly he does not want average dross, unfortunately it didn't happen this window but not wasting money on dross is likely to mean that more money will be available in the future.

Our rivals will no longer do business with us, they are worried, they are scared of us. Even Real Madrid would rather sell players to Chavski. Before ENIC took over Real Madrid would not have viewed us a rivals.

We have secured the services of most of our best players and are now paying them on a par with most other top clubs.

Our club now has a firm financial footing to move forward, Rome wasn't built in a day.

SO WHAT DID THE FEKKING ROMANS DO FOR US. Apart from the roads, and the aqueducts, and the education, and law and order etc. etc.

Well said, Sir





Although I like Cuffley - I lived there for a while

 

[Rocky blue army]

I remember the bad old days when my beloved club nearly went out of business altogether enic and levy have turned it all around now and we have a fantastic club to be proud of .ok so we didn't spend in the transfer market but that gives our youngsters a chance to shine and there's nothing better than one of you're own breaking into the first team.As I have said before I'd rather not panic buy and trust in our youth academy to provide the players to move us up to another level and to win things ,don't forget it wasn't that long ago we were splashing the cash on strikers who failed when we only had to look in our reserves and there was a certain harry kane waiting in the wings who could do the job better than all the strikers before him that we wasted money on .keep the faith the futures white the futures lilly white .COYS

 

[Blue and White]

A Pompey fan I know , blames T'riffic Harry for their woes as he spent their money. I tell him, don't blame Harry, look at the owners/chairman who allowed him to spend the money.
I like our chairman and his sensible outlook. Why spend -if we are to believe the hacks- £70mil on Zaha when we have Moura and Son.
The figures that were being asked for in this window were outrageous and even United weren't willing to spend it.( Are they starting to feel the pinch? It wouldn't surprise me, when they give nearly half a million a week to Sanchez and who knows how much to other players that got them 2nd place in the league last year.)
The new owners at Everton will soon find out that what they've spent won't win them the league.

 

[Spurlock]

I remember the bad old days...doesn't mean that's our place. Doesn't mean when the opportunity arises we should act in a humble manner and not pounce because we are little old Spurs. This is football and I also remember that we have finished 3/2/3 in our last few seasons which has coincided with our best team in decades and without a doubt our best manager in decades. So why are we still thinking like we are Aston Villa of today?

Levy has conditioned us to penny count

 

[deedub93]

I remember the bad old days when my beloved club nearly went out of business altogether enic and levy have turned it all around now and we have a fantastic club to be proud of .ok so we didn't spend in the transfer market but that gives our youngsters a chance to shine and there's nothing better than one of you're own breaking into the first team.As I have said before I'd rather not panic buy and trust in our youth academy to provide the players to move us up to another level and to win things ,don't forget it wasn't that long ago we were splashing the cash on strikers who failed when we only had to look in our reserves and there was a certain harry kane waiting in the wings who could do the job better than all the strikers before him that we wasted money on .keep the faith the futures white the futures lilly white .COYS

I wish i could double like this, 100% agree

 

[The RDBD]

Should be : Spurs under ENIC.

I do wonder what edicts come from Uncle Joe,
what Levy is able to do autonomously without interference etc.

 

[Spurf]

It's about the timing...this summer was the time...Levy ballsed it up. Let's hope we get zero Injuries to our first team squad. I'm happy enough with no signings if that happens...if not then our paper thin squad will get exposed.

Levy is a business man not a footballing man ..it's a shame he can't be both with the same kind of zest...his philosophy is holding us back.

Still can't believe we would have gone into administration if we spent some money on neccesery acquisitions. We are not 5 year old kids that want a shiny new player for the sake of it...we could have genuinely done with strengthening.

Worse than that Spurlock, flying in the face of the clear facts of the rise of Tottenham Hotspur the 'we must have a signing brigade' sound like 20 somethings or 30 somethings who want a shiny new toy and that is being polite about it.
Of course we could do with strengthening ANY club can claim that but if it has not been possible we have to do what we will all do stop bleating and enjoy watching the great players that we do have.
Do you remember Holte on 606 from Aston Villa debating forever on how Villa were greater than Spurs. Where is he now? Where are Villa now? They are where we were when Enic took over, that's how far we have come. Enjoy it.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Levy has conditioned us to penny count

I think he has made us think in terms of value.
We have been very constrained by the FFP rules so we have learned to live within our means. This has coincided with a period of massive success in the transfer market such that we have one of the best squads on the planet. But that won't bring sustained success. What will is bringing in more income. I am a bit surprised by this transfer window. Of the players allowed to move think only Kovacic, Keita and Mahrez would have improved our squad. I can see why we didn't get those. I would have thought we could have got one or two 50m players but who knows. I trust the model the club is run on and while everyone makes mistakes I can't tell what they are without hindsight. No one will ever know if this window was a failure as the counterfactual can't be known or analysed.

 

[Spurlock]

Worse than that Spurlock, flying in the face of the clear facts of the rise of Tottenham Hotspur the 'we must have a signing brigade' sound like 20 somethings or 30 somethings who want a shiny new toy and that is being polite about it.
Of course we could do with strengthening ANY club can claim that but if it has not been possible we have to do what we will all do stop bleating and enjoy watching the great players that we do have.
Do you remember Holte on 606 from Aston Villa debating forever on how Villa were greater than Spurs. Where is he now? Where are Villa now? They are where we were when Enic took over, that's how far we have come. Enjoy it.

That's what people seem to think...the fans just want someone they can call new. I think all I wanted was someone essential. I can't believe this is the first time in decades we haven't made a purchase and it's all of no concern to anyone as to why...it's all about in Levy we trust

So are we restricted by the stadium build? If so, why have the powers that be been telling us otherwise? If it's not then...why have we not managed to strengthen?

I don't believe the players weren't available...how long before we stop owing Levy a debt of gratitude for paying a quid for us? I'm not in line with Levy's thinking when it comes to football...he's good with the business model and he's done his job there...we are worth more than a quid now.

I support the badge though...I want my team to properly challenge and I don't say that as some spoilt child who's team is languishing in mid table. I say that as a fan of a club who are on the cusp of greatness however I feel as though we are being choked because they might be our ambitions but not really Levy's.

I hear alot of the posters still talking about 81/84 etc with fondness...the way we are going the next generation won't have much to look back on apart from a league cup trophy.

Why does no one get it that the team has developed thanks to footballing men within the club recruiting..spotting talent etc. In the meantime Levy has been building billion pound asset after purchasing for a quid with 1 trophy in his whole time here...that's pretty lame to be honest.

Our biggest splash was after the Bale sale...how can people not see Levy's game plan and when will people realise footballers are not ageless?

 

[deedub93]

I think he has made us think in terms of value.
We have been very constrained by the FFP rules so we have learned to live within our means. This has coincided with a period of massive success in the transfer market such that we have one of the best squads on the planet. But that won't bring sustained success. What will is bringing in more income. I am a bit surprised by this transfer window. Of the players allowed to move think only Kovacic, Keita and Mahrez would have improved our squad. I can see why we didn't get those. I would have thought we could have got one or two 50m players but who knows. I trust the model the club is run on and while everyone makes mistakes I can't tell what they are without hindsight. No one will ever know if this window was a failure as the counterfactual can't be known or analysed.

Real didn't want to sell to us so Kovacic went to the chavs as the chavs are not a CL team so no threat to Madrid. Mahrez was done and dusted before the window opened. Keita, well the mousers got in ahead of us, **** happens.

 

[deedub93]

That's what people seem to think...the fans just want someone they can call new. I think all I wanted was someone essential. I can't believe this is the first time in decades we haven't made a purchase and it's all of no concern to anyone as to why...it's all about in Levy we trust

So are we restricted by the stadium build? If so, why have the powers that be been telling us otherwise? If it's not then...why have we not managed to strengthen?

I don't believe the players weren't available...how long before we stop owing Levy a debt of gratitude for paying a quid for us? I'm not in line with Levy's thinking when it comes to football...he's good with the business model and he's done his job there...we are worth more than a quid now.

I support the badge though...I want my team to properly challenge and I don't say that as some spoilt child who's team is languishing in mid table. I say that as a fan of a club who are on the cusp of greatness however I feel as though we are being choked because they might be our ambitions but not really Levy's.

I hear alot of the posters still talking about 81/84 etc with fondness...the way we are going the next generation won't have much to look back on apart from a league cup trophy.

Why does no one get it that the team has developed thanks to footballing men within the club recruiting..spotting talent etc. In the meantime Levy has been building billion pound asset after purchasing for a quid with 1 trophy in his whole time here...that's pretty lame to be honest.

Our biggest splash was after the Bale sale...how can people not see Levy's game plan and when will people realise footballers are not ageless?

Sugar paid a quid, ENIC paid £75M

 

[Spurlock]

When a team hits a bit of a flatline and seems stuck in a certain way, position etc everyone always looks at the manager and says 'maybe he has taken the club as far as he can, maybe the club needs someone with fresh ideas etc etc...we have heard it all before and no doubt echoed it as observers of the game.

So why can't the same be said of a chairman?

 

[Spurlock]

Sugar paid a quid, ENIC paid £75M

Ok Dee...either way..he's more than made it back with some on top

 

[deedub93]

When a team hits a bit of a flatline and seems stuck in a certain way, position etc everyone always looks at the manager and says 'maybe he has taken the club as far as he can, maybe the club needs someone with fresh ideas etc etc...we have heard it all before and no doubt echoed it as observers of the game.

So why can't the same be said of a chairman?

Because we are still moving forward

 

[The RDBD]

Sugar paid a quid, ENIC paid £75M

You know paying one quid is a standard action for taking over businesses with serious debt.
Ken Bates did the same with Chelsky. The Ally Pally was similarly sold.

Spurs, when sold to ENIC were no longer a financial wreck
and so 75m was a reasonable market valuation.