Hang on, you can't use our form over the last 4 games to justify changes when we made changes in all those games. We're 4th because we've picked up more points than all but 3 other teams. You might think that other clubs should've picked up more points but Arsenal and Everton both benefited from offside goal decisions last weekend and the fact is that just under 2 points a game, like we are, is what will get you in the top 4. We're not at our best at the moment but I don't think we can afford to start tinkering more than we have too. New formations and new personnel on top of the changes that injuries have already caused us problems is the wrong idea, in my opinion.
Ah ok , I would love to see Ade play but from what I've seen when he comes on he doesn't look at ease with our system. As for Walker totally agree he needs a break to assess his form.
with the expection of the norwich game, our front 6 in the other 3 games consisted of 4 players being the same. (Lennon, Sandro, Hudd and Defoe.) of the other 2 positions out of the 6, Demps played 2 out of 3 games, and Sig played in 2 out of 3 games. - so yes, there's been changes as you say, but nothing at all significant. the core has remained the same and the players occupying the other 2 positions out of 6 have been players who've had regular football with us anyway. Therefore, I feel that it is fair to choose the form over the last 4 games or so as there's not been a massive amount of changes, and this is the time period that dembele has been missing for, which brought up this discussion anyway. FYI, in the norwich game 3 out of the front 6 were regulars. (I wasn't avoiding that game to make a point) I hear what you're saying about 2 points per game, but that's what I was getting at (in my own way), YV. I don't believe that we'll continue to average 2 points per game if we don't make a change or 2, in light of injuries. nothing I've suggested is drastic, or a change to the formation (albeit Hudd a little in front of Sandro so he's in more of position that suits him). it's november and we look stale and out of ideas because we've got 1 player missing. - which is utterly ridiculous.
this is all i've seen mate. Tottenham playmaker Mousa Dembele is unavailable for the visit of Wigan due to a niggling hip injury. Striker Emmanuel Adebayor is in contention after recovering from illness and a back injury, but midfielder Jake Livermore is a doubt after suffering an ankle injury in Wednesday's defeat at Carrow Road. Long-term absentees Scott Parker (Achilles), Benoit Assou-Ekotto and Younes Kaboul (both knee) remain sidelined.
From the OS - although basically the same as Roo's post WIGAN (H): TEAM NEWS Posted 01 November 2012 4:05pm Emmanuel Adebayor returns to the squad but Mousa Dembele misses out with injury for Saturday's Premier League fixture against Wigan. "We are waiting for information on Jake Livermore, hopefully he'll feel better from the knock that he got against Norwich," Head Coach Andre Villas-Boas told Spurs TV on Thursday. "Mousa will have further information on his injury today, so he will be out of the game. Ade has made a good return - he trained today - so he will be available for selection. Naughton and Mason are both back. "So it's positives and negatives for sure, but we have 25 players who want to do well."
You might not think it's significant changes but it is, especially when you add in the forced changes for injuries and how Dempsey and Sigurdsson have been moved into different positions too. In my view it's far better to go for consistency whilst we have new players, a new manager and injuries already making things more difficult than it should be. Eitherway I definitely disagree with Bale being moved into the centre, we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess
HI PL, has AVB actually stated that. I agreed he's implied that, but has he definitely said Ade won't start tomorrow? I'm hoping Ade will start, but agree it's very unlikely. Falque is showing potential, but has he got the drive to score or get an assist in the Prem, maybe we'll find out tomorrow. Dempsey has already scored two massive goals for us, including the iconic winner at OT, which gets him a place in the Spurs history books already, while still in his first season with us. It's just that he looks knackered. Maybe he'll wake up tomorrow morning having had a good night's sleep and feel a lot better. Maybe ...
Sorry YV, I don't understand quite what you mean here mate. Where's does the the "consistency" part of your comment come from, if you're saying that there's been significant enough changes? if players are being moved around anyway, such a sig and Demps like you say... surely there is no consistency at all? sorry if I'm being thick mate, it's Friday and i'm shattered.
I know our selections haven't been consistent of late which is why I brought it up when you mentioned our last 4 results. I was saying that I want consistency in the selections not that we've had it. Consistency comes from picking the same players and tactics and obviously that hasn't been entirely possible. When there's already injuries in the squad forcing changes and limiting backup options I fail to see where tinkering with a bit of everything becomes a logical decision. That's my point essentially.
I'm with you on this one. Stick with a system that's won 5/6--especially when the one loss resulted partly from our two best players being out against the best team in he league. But: I'm afraid of turning Ade into a disaffected player if he doesn't start-if he isn't already. I hope AVB's decision making process is in great form on this one. Ade is one of my favorite players, I'd be very interested to see how he works with Defoe, but I get the impression AVB just plain won't play a 4-4-2. This is a tough problem, I'm not sure what to do, and I can only hope AVB does.
I hope that Adebayor gets a decent run out from the bench and then starts the game against Maribor, either as the lone striker or alongside Defoe. I can't see any chance of him starting against Wigan though, as Defoe was rested for virtually all of the loss to Norwich.
Just been skimming through posts so thought I'd share my amazing insight I can appreciate we're sitting 4th in the league at the moment (way higher than I expected with AVB in charge, especially after the first 3 games) and I'm delighted we're there make no mistake but we've not looked great getting there in some games. Lets be honest, we should actually have more points that what we actually have, yet because of the way we've played, we've not hit targets. I've looked at our league results so far and said whether targets have been met or not: NUFC (a) - 2-1 L. Not a place to be ashamed to lose at but we should be aiming for a point at least. WBA (h) - 1-1 D. Should be a 3 pointer all day long. NCFC (h) - 1-1 D. Same as WBA. RFC (a) - 3-1 W. Great performance, target met. QPR (h) - 2-1 W. Good 2nd half, should be dominating the game. Target met though. MUFC (a) - 3-2 W. A win at OT is amazing - Bettered our target. AVFC (h) - 2-0 W. Efficient performance, target met. CFC (h) - 4-2 L. Should be getting at least a point at home to Chelsea. SFC (a) - 2-1 W. Good 1st half, poor 2nd half, was lucky to leave with 3 in the end. Target met though. So the results against NUFC, WBA, NCFC and CFC has meant that, in my opinion, we've missed out on at least 6 points (1, 2, 2, 1 = 6), to me that's massive especially this season where so many teams have improved. We've stuck with the same system of 4-5-1 since the start, admittedly when Dembele plays, we look so much better but while he's out, I feel we need to mix up the formation because a 4-5-1 without him is pants, especially as Sig and Dempsey are underperforming massively and so the onus is mainly on Defoe & Bale to grab the goals. Therefore, I'd like to see us try out a 4-4-2 with Ade and Defoe leading the line, Lennon and Bale on the wings with Sandro and probably Hudd (or even Falque - can play CAM so I'm sure he could play a little deeper?) playing in the centre OR if we are to go with 4-5-1 I'd have Falque play off Defoe, his 2nd half display vs Maribor and his 90 mins vs Norwich were so impressive, he came on against Maribor and changed the game and against Norwich, he created 2 chances against which should've been buried and nearly scored twice himself but for two great saves from Bunn. I think he deserves a chance in the league now, it's just reward for a player who's clearly hitting a bit of form. Why continue with an underperforming Dempsey or Sig when we have a young lad who's hungry to impress and has looked far better in his short time on the pitch than Dempsey or Sig have since the start of the season. I really don't see the risk, if he underperforms then we know he's not yet ready and we go back to watching Dempsey and Sig, if he impresses then all is good - and it'll give the other two a much needed kick up the ars*.
This was the very point I was making on another thread yesterday. I actually highlighted 7 games where I felt we had fallen below reasonable expectations, but I was including all competitions. Our current points tally looks decent enough as we sit in 4th place, but as we both highlighted, the reality is we should be sittiing on around 6 more points than we have.
ok, im trying to get to grips... (sorry in advance if i repeat anything here) earlier you said this. "You might not think it's significant changes but it is, especially when you add in the forced changes for injuries and how Dempsey and Sigurdsson have been moved into different positions too. In my view it's far better to go for consistency" my original point was about there not really being many changes to the front 6. - in your eyes the changes are/were significant. Then surely there's been no consistency? you mention that its better for us to go for consistency, but we have nothing to base that on with the changes over the last few games that you mention are significant. I personally feel that the front 6 has been pretty consistent recently and we have picked pretty much the same players, as you've stated we need to do. IMO, in terms of personnel and it's not working without Dembele, as SOS has alluded to. which is why I suggested a change up. I'm by no means suggesting tinerking with a bit of everything. it's simply a case of dropping Demps as he's played a lot, and dropping Sig because Falque deserves a chance. I've stuck with the same formation (bale in the centre just being an idea due his engine and turning defence into attack) because there's no way in hell AVB will switch to a 442. Although at the same time, I agree with SOS that it would be nice to see. it's just the fact that AVB is highly unlikely to do it, that i went for something similar to be realistic. I don't even know if i've got a point in any of what i've just written, but hey, it's beginning to clear things up in my little head!
You're talking about 6 points missed out on without taking off 3 for the unexpected win at OT otherwise what you're essentially saying is that we should be top by two clear points. I don't think that's a reasonable expectation. 3 points dropped isn't unacceptable especially since all our signings have been available we're up 2 according to you. If it was so easy to win all the games you think we should I'm guessing that means we should win at least 15 of our home games and lets say win all our away games against bottom half teams that gives us 75 points before you even count draws which would take us well over 80 points. Now as much as I believe we can become title challengers to judge AVB and the team against expectations that have us smash our highest ever points total in the Premier League and put on a title challenge is more than a little unfair.
I certainly can't see us being realistic title challengers this season, nor tBH, any season under ENIC. I'll be amazed under the current regime if we're ever on top or within 3 points of the leaders come April. Every so often we'll have a run that takes us into the top 4 or even higher, but challenging at the business end of the season can't see with our attitude towards spending. It's already cost us again this season, in the lge and cups.
The point I made yesterday was that if you take the dropped points games SOS refers to and add the Norwich CO cup plus a couple of the Europa games, then it can be seen we have fallen below reasonable expectations in 50% of our fixtures. Notwithstanding that other clubs have also had their problems (Man Utd's defense for example), but can you see our main challengers failing to perform in 50% of their fixtures ?? My post (on another thread) was written having been at both St Mary's last Sunday and at Carrow Road on Wednesday, and seen at first hand a substitution in both games which had all of us scratching our heads in disbelief, as I am sure it did others watching at home. It prompted me to consider whether we have a coach who is a one-trick pony here, because the same old self inflicted issues keep occurring. As I said earlier, our current points tally looks decent enough and is satisfying to some, but in my view, the bigger picture is giving me concern.
You're looking too hard trying to find a problem with what I'm saying. Where we can I'd side with playing the same players regularly and in the same system, obviously injuries have forced our hand in some areas in the past but that doesn't mean we should abandon that mentality and move one of our main goal threats out of position or that an experienced player like Dempsey isn't a credible option because he's had a few poor games. I think we're both a bit confused though now. Wish I'd never bloody said anything Yeah, I said the otherday too that the kind of changes he's trying to make haven't often been effective but part of the problem is him still having players that he doesn't fit into what he wants, injuries and players playing as AVB wants. If you look at who we have available to start in recent games we've had; Friedel(1st choice), Walker (1st), Gallas(1st), Caulker(4th), Jan(3rd), Sandro(2nd), Huddlestone(2nd), Lennon(1st), Dempsey(1st), Bale(1st), Defoe(2nd). When you look at that you can see our squad's a little stretched just trying to put a starting 11 together. You only miss a player to the extent that the backup option doesn't perform and in that regard Caulker, Jan, Sandro and Defoe have much lessened those issues although I don't think Caulker and Defoe have reached the consistency and quality of those they're replacing and Dempsey and Sigurdsson have really struggled in recent games. With regards to the effectiveness of his subs and players who have come in for cup games where we've looked to rest players and it looks weak. You look at Dawson(5th choice), Livermore(3rd), Carroll(3rd), Falque(3rd), Townsend(2nd) and I think it's understandable that our substitutions and cup performances have suffered. What else can you do when Huddlestone's tiring or playing badly, when Defoe's playing badly or not holding up the ball, when Bale's out or we're resting a winger? Sure we're not doing well across all competitions like we'd hoped but I don't think it's right to be over critical of AVB for this, the players themselves have a fair bit to answer for with our cup performances, in particular.
