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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Swansea City

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    Really frustrating afternoon but so far this is very much a typical Spurs start to a season so i'm not overly worried.

    I think today highlighted a number of facts:

    1) Trippier, as I spent most of last season saying, is only good against teams like Watford and Hull who have no idea how to defend. Put him up against a well organised and focused back line and he is ****e. I know it's hypocritical of me to now go back to making a scapegoat of him, but in my less than humble opinion he is now inhibiting KWP's development and shouldn't be anywhere near the team when he or Aurier are available. Sorry.

    2) Dier, as much as I love him, is threatening to become a player who is good at many things but excellent at nothing. It is a drawback of being such a versatile player. Tremendously useful to have in your squad, but I think it's safe to say that once Vic is back he will struggle to get first team games.

    3) As much as he pissed everyone off in the summer, we need Rose back. Urgently. Davies has played in almost every game in a run stretching back to Rose getting injured and it is unfair to expect him to continue doing so indefinitely. If Poch or the player felt that he needed a rest after giving 110% against Dortmund, fair enough. What isn't fair enough is how we have no.one else to fill in that role.

    4) We need Lamela back and fully fit. Urgently. He is to my mind the only player in the team with the skill set to give Dele the kick up the arse he clearly needs. Our young ill-tempered starlet is coasting through games at the moment because no-one on the bench can come close to competing for his place.

    5) Dembele is now too fragile to play more than once a week. He even struggled to match the pace against Dortmund. I don't know what's going on with Winks but we saw more than enough last season to suggest that he can cover that role when needed. Sissoko is a shockingly bad player (although i applaud the effort he's putting in this season. It's like watching a kid with no hands or feet trying to ride a bike..never happening but you can still admire the determination), and Dier just isn't creative enough.

    Rant over.
     
    #161
  2. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    Is there any correlation between starting slowly and always doing late business in the transfer window?
    Integrating new players must cause some disruption. When it's always 3 or 4 games into the season, it can't be ideal.
    And what's the issue re fitness? There are players injured or undercooked now, yet at the back end of last season when you were winning every week, the fitness levels were very high and teams were overwhelmed late in games.
    Teams who aspire to win the title can't write off the first half dozen games as a warm up period. That's what pre-season is for. Bed in new players and get fit.
     
    #162
  3. D.G.C.

    D.G.C. Well-Known Member

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    He's shouting his mouth off and the season's only 5 matches old, what a wilf.
     
    #163
  4. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Poch, I ****ing love you mate but today was a catastrophe of errors on your part.

    Without hindsight, the team selection wasn't all bad, we expected rotation due to the exploits of Wednesday night but sticking Son at LWB... I mean why? Fair enough Davies may have needed a rest but where on earth is the logic behind sticking an inside forward at LWB? It's ****ing bizarre and the last time he done that it was a catalyst in costing us a semi final! Most sensible thing to have done would've been Jan at LB, you know, a left footer...

    First 45 it was clear things weren't working and that the selection hadn't worked as planned. Sissoko went back to being Sissoko so thankfully he was subbed for Aurier about 15 mins into the second half but sticking Tripps at LWB was just another shocker, he got into superb positions but had to keep pulling back onto his right, which by then either the opposing full back had gotten into position to prevent a cross or the centre backs were positioned to deal with anything coming in. Davies may have been knackered but I'm sure he could've mustered at least 45 minutes - even half hour! - to be then given a complete rest on Tuesday.
    Likewise for Dembele, why was he left on the bench the entire game? His movement could've helped break down Swansea. If there's genuine issues with fitness and/ or his body which completely prevents him from playing twice in quick succession then as much as I love the bloke it's time to bring in a replacement, not someone to cover him but someone to take over him, we can't afford to be relying on a player who can only play once a week, with the greatest respect he's not Ledley.

    Bringing Llorente on was good. Taking Son off for him was disastrous. Son was the only player who I felt was really giving Swansea some problems with his movement. Why on earth didn't we take a CB off when it was apparent that Swansea had no intention of attacking?! Seriously, just **** sake, Poch! And then to make things better, we didn't even utilise Llorente's strengths, we still dilly and dallied with the ball on the floor for the most part.

    Alli was non-existent, amazed he lasted the 90.

    Real **** day. That's pissed me off more than the Burnley draw and even the Chelsea loss to be honest, because it felt so ****ing apparent at what was easily fixable yet nothing was done about it.

    Credit to Swansea though, they came for a draw and they got it, defended for their lives.
     
    #164
  5. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    Let's agree to never agree on a team selection again please.
     
    #165
  6. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

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    I agree about early transfers being good and wish we would get things done early but thing is, recent seasons tell us that starting quickly isn't all that important. City would be romping to their third straight title otherwise. If it turns out we got the right players in that will be far more benefit than a couple of wins instead of draws and hastily bought players early in the window.

    **** as it's been to start at home with 1 win in 4, the win has come in the most important and difficult game for us. Had we lost or drawn that, we'd only have 5 games to make up for the 2/3 points, where as we've got 33 games to make up the 5 points to top, or 1 point to 4th.

    It's not like we've been particularly bad. On another day we might have had a pen or two, or one of those chances would have just evaded the 'keepers fingertips, or maybe we get the second or Trippier doesn't **** up against Burnley, or Lloris doesn't leave the near post gaping and we have a bit more to show for ourselves. Excuses expire the more they're repeated but so long as we're in the right area of the table, it's all gravy imo. Even last season, we started pretty bang average performance-wise. It was the winning runs that ourselves and Chelsea put on last season that created distance. Only a fool would say we don't look capable of repeating that kind of form at some point.

    We've still got Rose, Lamela and Wanyama to come back too.
     
    #166
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  7. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. <ok>
    Well said mate. <applause>
     
    #167
  8. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    WILF? Can't say I've heard of that before. is it like a MILF?

    Wum I'd Like to F*ck?

    <laugh>
     
    #168
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  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Mike Dean's performance was the second-worse thing I saw yesterday evening, after the double bill of Black Lake on BBC Four.
     
    #169
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  10. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, thanks to OS. I got to Wembley nice and early and the tickets were duly printed and all resolved with minimal pain and suffering.

    Secondly, there was a really good atmosphere yesterday. Lots of noise, all of it very positive. It felt almost like a normal home game..........in 2013.

    Finally, this post absolutely nails it. The only issue that I don't understand is "What's wrong with Dele and how best to address it?" Yesrterday's performance was rank awful. He looks disinterested and a mere shadow of the player from the previous seasons. Mauricio Pochettino's comments about forgetting about his next agent and concentrating on football probably go a long way to explaining it. Christian Eriksen did something similar last season before he signed his new contract. Add in a forthcoming huge FIFA ban and a bit too much fun over the summer and he has become very ordinary indeed. A long chat with Llorente about how long a career is and how the only thing that really matters right now is football, would be a very good thing. I'd play him against Barnsley with Llorente and try and get him back into it. If that doesn't work, we'll have to consider putting him on the bench for a bit to snap him out of it.
     
    #170

  11. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

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    Iirc Winks still had some pain from his injury in preseason, don't know if that's still the case but it might be why he's still being kept under wraps.

    Can't agree about KWP, he needs to be brought through slowly and in safe games when we're a few goals up. Trippier's a good player but in a bad run of form, same with Alli, I don't think dropping them will help.

    I think the formation's the issue. Clearly against top sides 4 at the back leaves us open but playing 3 at the back against sides who are parking the bus is equally ineffective, it just wastes a player. Pochettino just seems to go through phases of playing 3 or 4 at the back though and there doesn't seem to be any pattern to it. I'd like to see Kane tried sitting in behind Llorente too as he gets tightly marked in the matches so giving him a bit more freedom inbetween the lines should see him become more influential.
     
    #171
  12. Too many either not firing at the right level or simply not good enough.
    - We know by now that no matter how much effort he puts in, Sissoko is a very poor footballer.
    - Trippier is a decent lad, but may never make the transition from decent mid-PL level to a team trying to compete for major competitions.
    - Son is not a player who should be given WB responsibilities. His game is too instinctive and not disciplined enough. Not as if we didn't know his already! (Apparently Ben took a knock midweek, but there were so many better options)
    - why did it take at least 45 minutes and arguably 60 when Aurier came on for us to start playing with pace. We were sooooooo slooooooowww!!
    - Dele needs a real kick up the ass and the stories circulating this morning about the club breaking the £100kpw won't help.
    - why bring Llorente on and then continue to play it slow, on the deck, through the middle of the park???
    - and for a top keeper, Lloris' distribution continues to concern.

    Yesterday was clearly viewed by Poch as a game to use for recovery after the CL efforts. That was just plain wrong: not only because few if any PL clubs should be underestimated, but most importantly because this was a chance to put the 'Wembley' issues to bed. Back to back wins at home were absolutely vital and the set up yesterday was not right.

    My rant over for now. We desperately needed something different yesterday to try and break down a strong and well-organised Swansea. Maybe a fit and allegedly able GKD will assist, but that's hardly the complete answer.
     
    #172
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  13. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    I agree with parts of your take - particularly the idea about Llorente being used to create space for Kane to exploit. I feel that, once again, Poch changed things too late and too ineffectively. Llorente should've come on at the same time as Aurier, and instead of removing Son's pace he should've replaced Alli. Son and Aurier down the flanks with Kane and Llorente bullying the middle would've been too much for them to cope with.

    I think that Poch has more or less settled on 3 at the back as our Plan A, for the simple reason that it circumvents the AVB football that 4 at the back brings if (as is usually the case) our opponent turns up dressed in TFL uniforms. But as we discussed to death on here last season, the key to the 3 at the back system is effective WB's, especially when we're playing Dier and Sissoko through the middle and QED have zero creativity there. Last season also taught us that we only really had 2 such WB's at the club - Rose and Walker. I feel that we now have 3 (Rose, Aurier and Davies) with a 4th learning the trade (KWP). Trippier is not on either list simply because he doesn't have the athleticism, control or pace to ever be effective there. The fact that Davies, 2 years his junior, has managed to up his game to the point where none of those lacks are much of a problem anymore is damning criticism of Trippier's lack of progress. And yes, it's fair to argue 'well Davies has had a really long stretch of games to work on the position'. But at the same time, Trippier has been training under Poch for over 2 years now and has played in more than enough games to know what is expected of the role.

    KWP has the skill set to play the role as Poch envisages it. Therefore, he should now be getting more game time than Trippier to perfect those skills. IMHO, Aurier should start most games - specifically against rivals and teams who park the bus, and KWP should be given cup games and fixtures against the Watfords and Hulls of this world.
     
    #173
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  14. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    I still feel that there's a big part for Trippier, an I'm not writing him off after a poor start for the season. But right now, I see his strengths being more suited to playing against "not so amazing" teams who are playing at home, and are tempted to come out of their shell a bit with the pressure of home support. Every team fancies their chances more at home and are more likely to put a show on for their fans. Trippier is a solid enough defender and can be a deadly provider at the right time if an opposing FB loses concentration or gets caught up in his own teams' game plan.

    But at wembley teams appear to be petrified of the space and know what we're like as a team to play against, so they are just executing ultra defensive mode. Like you have said CK, only raw pace out wide can exploit that sort of game plan and the size of the pitch, so Aurier starts every time for me.
     
    #174
  15. audrey.s.thackeray

    audrey.s.thackeray Well-Known Member

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    Can't resist the temptation to put my oar in.............

    I agree with bits of the comments from just about everyone on here, but not with any whole post, so far as I can see. So here's my thoughts.

    1) The line-up was at best bizarre. Son at wing-back is a no-no for reasons stated. Where was Sissoko supposed to play? I couldn't tell. Why wasn't Davies out there? And Dembele? (The latter was warming up for ages, and obviously busting to get on! So was Winks!)
    2) Trippier has become a problem instead of an insurance policy. I've commented before on the issue of his lack of height. He is constantly exposed in heading duels.
    A back five of Aurier, Alderweireld, Sanchez, Vertonghen, Davies would have helped me to relax much more than I did throughoput yesterday.
    3) Linked to the above was the lack of speed throughout the team. Son was the only one who seemed to have a fourth/fifth gear yesterday. No change of pace to disrupt a well-organised defence.
    4) A glance at the "average position" chart on BBC website reveals clearly another basic problem: lack of width. We constantly tried to advance through the most crowded part of the pitch. With inevitable results.
    5) The refereeing was questionable at best. Swansea got the better of most decisions. Penalty shouts were at the other end, and I've not seen tv coverage. But the impression was that a couple of them looked pretty justified (the shouts, not the decisions).
    6) Unlike some other posters, I would not want the Levy/Poch approach to the transfer deadline to change. We've done very well this time, with at least three players who add to our strength (Sanchez was outstanding yesterday) and versatility. From last time, It's only Sissoko about whom I retain a "waste of money" judgment. I feel sorry for Vincent.
    7) Compare the energy put in yesterday by Sanches for them with that exhibited by a too-casual, too-selfish Alli for us!
    8) Why does Flamini always put in a man-of-the-match performance against us?! It's getting to be a real nusisance!
    9) Like others I've started to worry every time Lloris has the ball!
    10) We still could have won! Even without a Plan B!
     
    #175
  16. D.G.C.

    D.G.C. Well-Known Member

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    No LOL, Mike Reid used to say it referring to an idiot, short for Wilfred, "what a Wilf."
     
    #176
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  17. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    I suppose Barnsley will have a recording of this match and will come with a double decker bus defence.....expecting an easy draw?
     
    #177
  18. D.G.C.

    D.G.C. Well-Known Member

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    Expect a Spurs win.
     
    #178
  19. Blue and White

    Blue and White Well-Known Member

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    I take it you mean Flappyhandski who yesterday did not flap at anything and held on to every shot.
    In fact Swansea didn't make an error that I can think of. To defend for 90 minutes without an error is rare.
    We might not have been at our best, but we could have easily won with one moment of magic; one error; one decent ref (United got the handball decision today- I am sure other teams would have got a penalty yesterday given our claims)
    Finally- I totally disagree with those that say Swansea deserve credit and a point for defending so well. The aim of a game is to try and win-they clearly didn't. And therefore didn't deserve anything. (Nothing to do with possession-to do with goal attempts.)
     
    #179
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  20. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting results.
    Spurs 3- Dortmund 1.
    Arsenal a lot v Cologne.

    Spurs 0 Swansea 0
    Chelsea 0 Arsenal 0
    Dortmund 5 Cologne 0.

    My question is:- if Dortmund had come to Wembley to park the bus,would Dortmund have won. I think they would have going by the Spurs/Swansea game.
    The moral is:- don't play Spurs at their attacking game because you will lose!
     
    #180

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