Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Middlesbrough

[PleaseNotPoll]

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[humanbeingincroydon]

Once again our midfield is a Catch-22: White and Devine could both offer something different in midfield (or at the very least an injection of energy) but lack experience, yet our midfield can't put a stamp on the match so it makes no sense to sub off Hojbjerg or Winks for an untried youngster, yet because of the lack of authority in matches we need to change something, but by that same token giving youngsters a baptism of fire is potentially going to stall out their development, and so on, and so on, and so on, and Ariston

 

[crackerman jack]

We're not creating anything for them though, unless they do it for each other.
Son was ****ing awful tonight, don't get me wrong, but it's not like they're getting plenty of chances.

I agree it’s the team that’s not good enough we don’t have enough guile going forwards.
When Kane has time and space he can hurt any team. But set up against us like borough did tonight and he becomes fairly ineffective.
As someone said earlier on the thread unless we get the early goal it’s a pretty painful watch seeing us try and break a team down

 

[Spurf]

I've been saying to some friends for a little while now that he deserves more criticism than he's been getting. I feel like a lot of Spurs fans have given him a 'free pass' because a lot of these players he plays have preceded him, and weren't performing optimally beforehand anyway. But the fact is, he's made some big mistakes along the way and refuses to acknowledge his own performance in his interviews. He frequently seems to blame everyone else other than himself.

He's obviously a very good coach, but he's certainly not infallible and tonight's result is more evidence of that.

Except it's not true. Conte blamed himself after Burnley and suggested he may be the wrong man for the job. He uses the collective we all the time. WE have to work hard. and so on.

 

[Spurf]

I am not expecting much this season and I never have, for me Conte begins after the summer window provided he stays.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Except it's not true. Conte blamed himself after Burnley and suggested he may be the wrong man for the job. He uses the collective we all the time. WE have to work hard. and so on.

I don't think that he did blame himself, to be honest. He had a strop.
His words were the typical "I'm great, me" stuff that he always comes out with.
Then he suggested that maybe he wasn't good enough and he should go, virtually as a threat.
As I said before, he's on a Mourinho speed-run.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I agree it’s the team that’s not good enough we don’t have enough guile going forwards.
When Kane has time and space he can hurt any team. But set up against us like borough did tonight and he becomes fairly ineffective.
As someone said earlier on the thread unless we get the early goal it’s a pretty painful watch seeing us try and break a team down

We shipped out all of our attacking midfielders and didn't replace them.
Kamikaze transfer window.

 

[BajanSpur]

This bunch surfaced on the big big BBC and made themselves look like Ass'es

 

[Spurf]

I don't think that he did blame himself, to be honest. He had a strop.
His words were the typical "I'm great, me" stuff that he always comes out with.
Then he suggested that maybe he wasn't good enough and he should go, virtually as a threat.
As I said before, he's on a Mourinho speed-run.

PNP you have a down on Conte which surprises me because you are usually very fair. I think it's far too early to make the judgments you are making.

 

[Dier Hard]

I've been saying to some friends for a little while now that he deserves more criticism than he's been getting. I feel like a lot of Spurs fans have given him a 'free pass' because a lot of these players he plays have preceded him, and weren't performing optimally beforehand anyway. But the fact is, he's made some big mistakes along the way and refuses to acknowledge his own performance in his interviews. He frequently seems to blame everyone else other than himself.

He's obviously a very good coach, but he's certainly not infallible and tonight's result is more evidence of that.

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a free pass but more a case of we still have so much utter **** at this club that regardless of who our manager is they’re likely going to struggle to get consistent results, so there’s probably a bit more leniency towards him at the moment. The gripe from most fans is with the hierarchy and players. Even from tonight’s starting XI, Sessegnon, Doherty and Winks in particular would probably struggle getting game time for Boro and there’s a good few more in our team/ squad that just aren’t up too it.

Conte’s not helped himself in a number of games and he’s not immune from criticism either but this is easily the worst bunch of players he’s managed for about 10-11 years and I think he knows it as he struggles to get anything out of them. There’s zero creativity in this squad with the exception of Kane, who essentially is meant to be the one that benefits from creativity…

 

[BrunelGunner]

Except it's not true. Conte blamed himself after Burnley and suggested he may be the wrong man for the job. He uses the collective we all the time. WE have to work hard. and so on.

I can't comment on that, as I haven't listened to that press conference or interview, but most times when I've listened to him after a bad result, he often talks about the mentality, about certain things or players not being to the right standard and I rarely hear him say that he needs to reflect on his own decisions and performance as a manager (or words to that effect).

I'm not saying I'm right, by the way, but the feeling I get from him is that sometimes he's trying to preserve his reputation above anything else. And that's not a good trait to have.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I am not expecting much this season and I never have, for me Conte begins after the summer window provided he stays.

The important question is whether he remembers Pape Matar Sarr returns in the summer

Sort if like how Metz forgot he was on loan to them this season...

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

PNP you have a down on Conte which surprises me because you are usually very fair. I think it's far too early to make the judgments you are making.

I don't like his attitude or his football.
He's talking a big game and producing nothing.
If he's a great coach, then perhaps we should be seeing some improvement in our players. I'm not.

 

[Spurf]

I can't comment on that, as I haven't listened to that press conference or interview, but most times when I've listened to him after a bad result, he often talks about the mentality, about certain things or players not being to the right standard and I rarely hear him say that he needs to reflect on his own decisions and performance as a manager (or words to that effect).

I'm not saying I'm right, by the way, but the feeling I get from him is that sometimes he's trying to preserve his reputation above anything else. And that's not a good trait to have.

Too early for me as I said. Where would Arteta be if he had been judged last season or even earlier this one. You have to give managers time and if you expect a fella like Conte to have a small ego that's not going to happen is it?

 

[paultheplug]

I doubt even having a competent referee swoukd have brought us a win tonight, but England got so much wrong in this match he should be demoted to pitch 187 at Wormwood Scrubs

 

[BrunelGunner]

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a free pass but more a case of we still have so much utter **** at this club that regardless of who our manager is they’re likely going to struggle to get consistent results, so there’s probably a bit more leniency towards him at the moment. The gripe from most fans is with the hierarchy and players. Even from tonight’s starting XI, Sessegnon, Doherty and Winks in particular would probably struggle getting game time for Boro and there’s a good few more in our team/ squad that just aren’t up too it.

Conte’s not helped himself in a number of games and he’s not immune from criticism either but this is easily the worst bunch of players he’s managed for about 10-11 years and I think he knows it as he struggles to get anything out of them. There’s zero creativity in this squad with the exception of Kane, who essentially is meant to be the one that benefits from creativity…

I understand that the hierarchy are primarily to blame, and I'm not suggesting you should get rid of Conte or that he's the problem. Because I don't think that (right now). But I do think he's been let off the hook quite a few times for poor performances or results of which he, as manager, warrants further introspection and analysis. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my own perception.

I also don't think some of those players are as bad as you think they are, and they are absolutely good enough to get past a Middlesbrough team who are 8th in the Championship. You had enough firepower on that field to beat them. Tonight is one night where he does deserve the heat.

 

[BajanSpur]

One nil down in a cup tie. with less then ten mins to go and still playing the ball backwards and sideways at every opportunity

 

[KingHotspur]

I don't like his attitude or his football.
He's talking a big game and producing nothing.
If he's a great coach, then perhaps we should be seeing some improvement in our players. I'm not.

Very harsh. Conte is an elite manager who wins titles. There’s not a manager alive who could turn this current crop into winners. Take the two best managers in the league - Klopp and Pep. Klopp needed time to get his team into his vision and Pep has basically had unlimited funds to do so. Conte has had 1 winter transfer window.

 

[Spurf]

I don't like his attitude or his football.
He's talking a big game and producing nothing.
If he's a great coach, then perhaps we should be seeing some improvement in our players. I'm not.

I would argue that we are but I know your view just thinks it's premature. Time will tell.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Very harsh. Conte is an elite manager who wins titles. There’s not a manager alive who could turn this current crop into winners. Take the two best managers in the league - Klopp and Pep. Klopp needed time to get his team into his vision and Pep has basically had unlimited funds to do so. Conte has had 1 winter transfer window.

And if he spoke like this, then I might have more patience with him.
I fully expect him to bail after failing and then blame everyone else for it.