In three years and over 70 games he’s had about 7-8 standout performances. Bale showed promise from literally his first handful of games. Townsend also showed promise in periods, as did Bentaleb and Mason. So how much longer do we afford a player to truly come good? He’s no doubt looked much better in recent games and yesterday’s cameo was arguably the best he’s ever looked but after three years you have to wonder if he can keep it up. All players hit purple patches but it’s the ones who do it for prolonged periods, season upon season, that set them apart. Poch himself has even challenged Winks to improve his consistency when he’s faced questions from the press. Winks has the talent but it’s whether he can apply that on a regular basis. I’m still not sure he can despite an upturn in form. Even if he does come good though, it’s still imperative we bring in midfield reinforcements, it’s the weakest area of our squad at the moment.
Poch is drained from trying to get a tune out of this squad..he tries and tries. He's not blameless...it's not Levy's fault that Poch has the worst in game management out of all the top 6 managers...so he needs to take a look at himself too. We are fast track bullies and can beat most teams but any team with a touch more quality than us and we are gazumped...that's where Poch needs fresh players with fresh levels of capability. It would also help the current crop raise their bar further. Too much excitement about long term prospects off the pitch that we seem to be forgetting football is about the stuff that happens on the pitch and with regards that our manager has made utterances. Instead of backing our most successful manager in the modern era...Levy decided to make him the only PL manager not to spend a penny in a summer transfer window. This has nothing to do with last nights result...the gulf in class there is real enough to notice and accept.
Doesn't it make you wonder why he is kept around? Poch was fairly ruthless around Townsend, Mason, Carroll, Pritchard and Bentaleb but Winks he obviously sees something different. Perhaps it's only in training at the moment, perhaps he precisely follows instructions he is given, but Poch seems to have a lot of faith in him.
I don't ignore what Poch said I accept it in the context that he delivered it. It's utter nonsense to suggest, as you do, that Levy has let him down he never spoke those words in relation to Levy he put them in the context of the world cup, the injuries, and the disappointment of the stadium not being ready. Nothing to do with transfers at all. Levy has already made a statement saying that he too is disappointed. Delays on many if not most builds usually take longer than anticipated so it should not be a huge surprise that the stadium is not ready on the projected time. Transfers? You and others have a mindset that says transfers are the answer and the fact that we didn't make any is why we are not going to win the league. Yes that's probably true, if we had been able to buy Lionel Messi and Bale, for example, we could reckon on winning the league. We couldn't and apparently we couldn't find others and we couldn't get the price we wanted for sales we could have made to make funds available. Many would have complained if we had sold Toby to United for example and it would have weakened us to do it anyway. MP had already made it clear that he knew from Levy that we would have to sell before we could buy. If you think that's unreasonable when we are building a multi million stadium shortly after completing a multi million training facility, I disagree. These facilities will secure the future of Spurs far more than signing a player will, because they are long term investments. Personally I find it incredible that fans are complaining about the most progressive chairman Spurs have had in decades. This is not a computer game it's the real world where costs and benefits have to be considered and decisions have to be made on what money to spend where. A real world where if you get these decisions wrong you go out of business as Spurs nearly did not that long ago. Levy has taken this club far further forward than any of us expected when he took over, he has made mistakes, every one who tries does, but he has always pushed to take Spurs in an upward direction. Not only has he transformed Spurs infrastructure the team is now better than it has been since the days of Keith Burkinshaw. You are either too young to remember or your memory has failed you.
It could also be he's the only other natural CM other than Dembele I think as natural talent goes, with regards to previous prospects, Winks is up there with Bentaleb but Bentaleb applied his talent a lot more regularly than Winks (as did Mason, who had less natural talent than Winks but utilised his skills to full effect). What ended up costing Bentaleb was his attitude, a damn shame as he was a phenomenal talent and has since done brilliant at Schalke (although his attitude has been questioned there as well). This is where I think Winks is different, he clearly comes across a model pro who's always willing to learn, he hasn't gotten too big for his boots despite the fact he's played twice for England and so I think Poch sees him as a perfect player to have around. Ultimately though it's the on-field stuff that does the most talking and as I've already said, Poch himself has challenged Winks to become more consistent. IF (and I hope it's a when) we bring in reinforcements at CM in January and depending on the quality of those players, I think that will give an idea as to how Poch truly values Winks.
The best kind. If you only value your team by cups then you are in for a whole lot of disappointment.
70 games? Most were as sub and a number of them were for barely a couple of minutes as that's how Pochettino likes to bring young players into the team(he also came on very late against Fulham and United). Also Pochettino likes to keep his players on their toes, even when Kane's been in great form he says that he can still improve. He also likened him to Iniesta recently which doesn't sound like he shares your bleak outlook for his career. You've talked a lot about his age and development before. Barkley was in a similar position with injuries and a run of less impressive form(not helped by bad management) and when we were linked to him many wrote him off yet now he looks like exactly the kind of player we could do with. Just thought I'd say my piece and I'm sure we'll have to agree to disagree but the only thing that will stop Winks becoming a quality player is injuries imo.
Why do you think he's been a sub for so long? If he was as good as what people make out he'd have more starts. Even now, in a period where Dembele is quite frankly borderline useless, Winks still can't cement a starting role, why? I'd say there's a big difference between saying someone can further improve to saying someone needs to be more consistent. The latter suggests a player needs to seriously up his game to stay in the side/ squad. Lets go further into that Iniesta comment: "When we talk about midfielders like [Spain greats] Xavi and Iniesta, he’s like this type of player. He has this capacity but he needs to take my words in a very positive way — he needs a lot of work". “I don’t want to praise him too much because if so his head [grows big]! His perception will be ‘wow!’ And the reality is he still needs to prove [himself]". So yes, he's given Iniesta/ Xavi comparisons but immediately talks about how he needs to improve to actually merit those comparisons. Taarabt was likened to Zidane, dos Santos to Ronaldinho, Townsend was even being spoken of as a Bale replacement when he hit his purple patch, there's a huge difference between being likened to greats than actually becoming a great yourself. The cameo we saw last night where he played some of his best football needs to be bettered on a regular basis before we can start putting Winks in any such bracket as a quality player. EDIT: FWIW, I really hope more than anything I get made to look a complete dick by Winks, I hope he proves me massively wrong and becomes a great player but right now I just can't personally see it. I think he can be a useful squad player but I don't ever see him becoming essentially the Kane of centre midfield for Spurs.
Nothing to do with me being too young or forgetting the past...doesn't mean we can't move in a better direction because we had it really bad once. What is Poch talking about here? Nothing to do with the WC and other side issues. “The circumstance that happened in the last years, I think the club is not focused completely in winning titles or winning games,” Pochettino admitted. “We have a lot of focus and you know very well when you are competing with sides, like we are in Champions League and Premier League, the most important thing is to fight in the same conditions as others.
I think these quotes sum it up Hes not happy This is about stuff in the summer (make of that what you will) This is about understanding the stadium is important but that doesnt mean it isnt pissing him off which sums up his mood in the first quote. Also expects levy to splash some cash when you move in
I remember the days when signing Neil Sullivan was cause for optimism. Bloody hell was Ian Walker ****e...
I don’t think our transfer policy has hindered out next step up. It is our transfer policy that has put us in position to move up. I don’t want to risk the fantastic progress we have made so far by over-stretching the budget. We have by consistent excellent financial management got ourselves into a position where talk of a Sky four and a Sky five has to a top six. Along with everybody else I was surprised that we didn't sign anyone in the summer, but if the additional wage budget was used giving our ‘ underpaid ‘ stars a rise to get then closer to the wages paid by some clubs, so be it. I’d much rather that than the extra thousands per week going to a new player that may not really be an improvement tothe existing squad. It is only in the last year that we have been able to give substantial rises to our best players. We are in a better position to push now than we have ever been and I expect us to do so in the next two years.
Spurs are not reaching the level of the past 2-3 years at present. You're playing at 90% most of the time - that's good enough to grind out wins v Cardiff and West Ham, but not to get past Liverpool and City or compete in the CL. There are a number of (obvious) factors: - some players have lost some sharpness due to playing non-stop for club and country - some players are best their past due to age or lack of fitness - some players are not as settled and/or committed as they should be - a lack of strength in depth in all positions There are three areas where the effects are most noticeable: - a lack of goals when Kane isn't scoring - a lack of dynamism in midfield - a lack of pace in wider areas It's nothing new because Spurs always seem to be in this kind of situation around this time of the season before Kane goes on a scoring spree and Eriksen takes teams apart whereupon everything is rosy again. This season it's going to be difficult to stay in touch with the top three unless than run of form starts now and along the way there are wins against top four rivals. The solution has been for the existing star players of the last 2-3 years to hit top form, but the reasons this time for the dip suggest an alternative needs to be found. The lack of transfers is a big issue in my view. City and Liverpool strengthened their squads in areas where they were strong. One of those additions (Mahrez) played and scored last night. Spurs need a younger, more dynamic, quality central midfielder, a pacy winger/forward (Martial) and another goalscoring striker. If it means spending £150M, then it has to be found. City and Liverpool have those additional back up players in their squad, having already strengthened last season. The lack of game changing players in Spurs' squad is all too apparent. I'd also be concerned that this team has not fulfilled its potential and won anything. There will come a time when Kane, Eriksen and others will have their heads turned by other clubs.
