1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,366
    Likes Received:
    48,942
    Jose's tactics in certain games have definitely been awful but it's now good seeing him realise how bad they were by playing to our attacking strengths of late. I'm happy he's realised his mistakes, though I do think he may have realised them too late as there's a lot of catching up for us to do. Still, with Bale now back in the picture alongside Kane and Son, those three alone give us an outside chance of having a good end to the season.

    With regards to Dele though, the last two and a half/ three years he's been poor barring a few bright sparks here and there. Then on the first game of this season he was woeful yet again - as was just about everyone else though - but I think with him, Jose just reached a stage of thinking "I'm done" with the guy. He'd already been criticised for his training levels and we've known in recent times that he's had troubles with his on/ off girlfriend, I also personally believe he got too hyped up by his social media following and he put too much effort into his brand/ gaming and took his eye off of football. Jesse Lingard has done similar with his JLingz stuff and it's no real surprise both have lost their positions at club and country.

    In terms of Jose's selections; Lucas, Bergwijn and Lamela have been selected primarily because of their work rate, Jose's predominantly favoured grit over quality a bit too much here and whilst he may be of the idea that "hard work beats talent if talent don't work hard" there's a fine line where someone's quality just outright demolishes anyone's hard graft, Berbatov and van der Vaart are two who spring to mind outside of Bale in that regard. Bale's shown more ability, quality and end product in just the last few matches than we've seen from Lucas and Lamela in years for the most part.
     
    #21
  2. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,366
    Likes Received:
    48,942
    I think Dele can possibly still have a future at Tottenham but I don't think it'll ever be as a first choice option. Whether he'd be willing to accept that I'm not sure but for me he doesn't make a fully fit best Spurs XI right now and with rumours of Sabitzer being a top target in the summer or someone similar, it further makes Dele's position at the club look on edge. A lot may depend on Lo Celso.

    Dier's regression has been a tough one for me as for years he was one of my favourite players. Was pivotal to our in-game transitions from defensive formation to attacking and I felt he showed signs of a potential Spurs captain at one point. Looks so out of his depth nowadays though, whether it be CB or DM. Hard to see a future for him to be honest, two top managers with different ideas and philosophies haven't gotten a tune out of him for about 3 years now. I can't blame Jose for not getting much out of Dier to be honest, if anything Jose's tried too much with him to the detriment of our squad as he's been riddled with mistakes this season that have cost us.

    Winks ain't regressed though, I just think it's taken Ndombele and Hojbjerg to make fans realise how bad of a player he is as we're now seeing good players play in his position. @BajanSpur and I spotted it years back, you lot just been playing catch up <laugh>

    All seriousness, I don't think I've seen a player have as many excuses made for them as Winks has over the years:
    He's young he'll improve.
    He's just come back from injury so is timid.
    The tactics don't suit him.
    He needs to play in a three, not a two. Or he needs to play with the right partner(s).

    I think because he's a genuinely nice bloke and from the academy fans have been overly lenient with him, whether consciously or subconsciously but now that we see how big the drop in quality is when Ndombele/ Hojbjerg don't play, I think the penny's dropped on most fans now. He probably leaves this summer though anyway, Skipp jumps above him in the pecking order and Winks has already made rumblings of not being happy with game time this season, it'll be even worse should he still be here for next.
     
    #22
  3. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    8,172
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    Big game this. Win and we’re 3 points off 4th with a game in hand on the top 3. Yes it’s a very congested table but what we’d all written off, or at least I had, will be back in reach.

    Based on Jose’s presser I’m not sure Bale will start but I’m sure he’ll have a part to play. If we go into this with the right attitude then I’ll be confident, ultimately I think we’ll be able to call the outcome after the first 10 minutes.
     
    #23
  4. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,723
    Likes Received:
    24,203
    Currently, for what it's worth, I think Dier's regression has been the most significant and damaging. I think that we'll be able to relocate Winksy more easily...maybe to Spain? In the right system, he performs a useful function. However, Mourinho doesn't play a possession game with 3 midfielders, so he's best moving elsewhere...and we might just get a decent fee for him (taking into account that Covid's severely damaged the market).

    As for Dier, I think that we're stuck with hoping that he can regain something like proper fitness for a professional athlete and that allows him to play consistently at a decent level. Right now, he's still got the attitude that he's an England international who played in a WC SF, whilst I'd far rather have Rodon in the team. His wage is likely to mean that he's an extremely difficult sale.

    Dele's the best option of the three. If a manager could get his head right, he's still got the physical and football skills to be a top player. The recent truce between the two was initiated by Mourinho but I'm betting that Levy spoke to both and told them to sort it out...just like he did with Mourinho and Ndombele. It's just as well because Mourinho's method had singularly failed and we can't treat valuable assets as expendable, like Chelsea might.

    However, it's not inconceivable that all 3 will still be at the club next season...which is why Mourinho's always been likely to fail.
     
    #24
  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    70,679
    Likes Received:
    30,951
    Dier's problem is simply that he bulked up way too much to prove he can play as a CB, which has cost him at least half a yard of pace

    While he clearly bulked up between his first season with us and when he was our first-choice DM, he still had his pace so that he was able to break up play and generally be a ****ehouse whenever and wherever he was needed - but with him bulking up he plays like he's faster than he is, hence his constantly being in poor positions at the worst time possible as his reactions aren't as quick as he thinks they are
     
    #25
  6. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,366
    Likes Received:
    48,942
    Winks will be pretty easy to shift I'd imagine. The HG factor means he'll have suitors in England as well as any potential options abroad. I disagree he performs a useful function though, certainly from a Prem perspective anyway, there's nothing he can do that Hojbjerg/ Ndombele can't and they do a lot more too. He generally does ok against lower class opposition because he's not out of his depth there. Poch and Jose have different philosophies and Winks has never excelled under either manager.

    I'm not even sure Dier's problems are physical any more, no doubt he's put on a bit too much muscle/ weight but as a CB that shouldn't be too much of an issue for him. Positionally he's just a disaster, he gets barged relatively easily despite the bigger frame and his technical ability has somehow gotten really poor. I agree he's going to be tough to shift and like Toby, we should never have given him a new contract.

    Dele absolutely has talent and has the highest ceiling of the three but I do also think that unlike Kane or Son, he's been unable to level up once defenders started to double up or target him and I think that - along with his off field issues - is why he's struggled to replicate the form of his first two seasons. He was an unknown quantity back then and took the league by storm but as time went by defenders worked on dealing with him more and his impact in games lessened because of that as he himself couldn't go onto that next level. Can he still get to that next level? Possibly but will he? I'm not sure. I feel like Dele has now had as many if not more poorer games than he has had good ones for Spurs. I don't blame Mourinho for Dele's treatment either, I actually agree with what Jose has done with him, Dele needed this because Poch never gave him the rocket up the arse back when he was in charge.
     
    #26
  7. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,723
    Likes Received:
    24,203
    As poor as he's been in defence, Mourinho's early attempts to play him in midfield were painful. I don't knock the guy's efforts but physically he's still way short of being able to meet the grade and he has bulked up to a point where he runs like me.

    Mourinho identified him as our defensive leader on the pitch and one could hear Ledley encouraging him to marshal the players around him. Unfortunately, he needs all of his thoughts to be on learning to be a centre back again because he's not taking up the right positions, nor anticipating movement and has started diving in when Toby or Jan would make the forward make a decision.

    He's bottom of the list of some limited centre back options. I dearly hope that he can sort things out because I genuinely like the guy...but right now, I don't want to see him starting tonight.
     
    #27
    The Huddlefro likes this.
  8. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,846
    Likes Received:
    56,356
  9. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    30,330
    Likes Received:
    17,106
    Interesting
     
    #29
  10. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,366
    Likes Received:
    48,942
    Had a feeling we’d see a change at full back. Think Doherty and Davies will play in the Zagreb games too, keeps all FBs fresh and ready that way.
     
    #30
    The Huddlefro likes this.

  11. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    8,172
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    I had an inkling we’d see Dele today so I hope he makes an impact. Dele at his best is a huge asset to this team and if Jose can bring him back into the fold as he has done with Tanguy (and Bale, to a lesser extent, who was all about fitness) then I’d be delighted to see it.
     
    #31
  12. Alfie Conn

    Alfie Conn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    10,123
    Likes Received:
    13,760
    DELE,BALE,SON AND KANE start , let's out a bit of wee and swoons, we're going to lose ain't we ?
     
    #32
  13. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,373
    Likes Received:
    14,026
    Front three blitzkrieg day 2.
    Alli given a chance to front up to the level Moura did against Burnley.
    FB rotation.

    You would swear there is some kind of higher intelligence at work ...
     
    #33
  14. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Exciting as it should be, full squad being used and up front we look scary.
     
    #34
    remembercolinlee likes this.
  15. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    8,172
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    For the first time in a while I’m actually excited about a Spurs game rather than beginning with existential dread, which might not be a good sign.

    I really think we’ll know within the first 10/15 minutes if we’ll get something here, if we’re on the front foot it’s a good sign. That and the start of the second half which has so often been our downfall.
     
    #35
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    70,679
    Likes Received:
    30,951
    I can never get used to 6pm kickoffs...
     
    #36
    Tilly'sowner likes this.
  17. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,373
    Likes Received:
    14,026
    At least one of the Poool or Chelsky are dropping pts today.
    So even more motivation for thus-minded Spurs players.
     
    #37
  18. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    17,759
    Likes Received:
    8,581
    Fans on Twitter are referring to the front 4 as “SHAG”. <doh>

    knowing our luck we’ll go into full spursy mode and they’ll soon be renamed as “GASH” <laugh>
     
    #38
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  19. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Let's hope they are ready to BASH
     
    #39
  20. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    30,330
    Likes Received:
    17,106
    On an off day they can be HAGS.
     
    #40

Share This Page