I say again, a stat appeared on SSN that Spurs have made the most defensive clearances of ANY PL side...the Everton game will have done nothing to improve that fact. The defence is too busy because the midfield and forwards can't hang on to the ball up the pitch, its as simple as that, can't pass for toffee, can pass to a Toffee...no problem with that! Modric and VdV can keep and use the ball, who we have now can't to the same effect. Ade's first touch not great at the best of times is exceptionally ****e atm, its like Bambi trying to control it. Yesterday missing Bale was obvious, it made us quite predictable, the LH side was nothing to worry about for Everton with Demps vacating it anyway, which had the double effect of giving Coleman room to manouvre down their right. Its also easier for teams to concentrate on Lennon when Bale's missing.
I agree, and like i said earlier, taking lennon off seemed odd at the time. But having thought about it, he wasn't having a lot of luck so we had to try something else and we needed another man in midfield anyway. I think Ade and Defoe do work and i think AVB was trying to see how long he could persist with them. Their both quite pacey and were shutting Everton's defence down well constantly trying to keep the pressure on. - both of them didn't stop running all game. With JD being in the goal scoring form he's in, I can see why AVB held out for as long as possible without making that change. I don't think it was a case of "realising that dembele on the right was pointless". Dembele is a player who will always run and chase back. he's also bigger than lennon and might have offered something different, as Lennon had a rough time against baines. - but then sig came on because dembele was nakered. You refer to AVB using negative subs against norwich. Are you comparing that to sunday too? If so (and please correct me if i'm wrong) Sig wasn't a negative sub, he came on with fresh legs to keep the pressure on Everton. Same goes for Falque. IMO, we lost for a few reasons. Everton, overall, were better. - They just happened to score 2 late goals, but they could have happened at any point during the game. Due to injuries, our back line is constantly changing. we'll continue to leak goals like QPR unless there's stability installed soon. The other options we have from the bench pose barely any threat. there is a stark difference between the player that comes off, and the player that replaces. in most cases. LB - next to no cover, so our best fit central defender plays there. - naughton woeful in that position. CB - Gallas - should be on the bench, but infact starts which makes things even worse RB - yes walker's off form, but the replacements are still weaker in terms of quality. LW - townsend - a massive difference between him and bale. Dempsey not a bad option. RW - Falque? showing signs of promise, but no where near lennon's standard yet. Sig? no pace or wing threat. CM roles- Livermore and hudd - not good enough. Carroll still learning. Nor Dempsey or Sig seem to work in that central striker support role. Strikers - we haven't got any more!!
I think that we might be dropping too deep because of a lack of leaders and strong personalities on the pitch, as well as missing an influential playmaker. King retired, so that's our talisman gone, but with Kaboul and Parker out our defensive organisation has suffered. Add in Dawson and Assou-Ekotto and the gaps aren't surprising. Gallas can still play a decent game every 10 days, maybe, but he's not a leader. Caulker and Walker are too young and inexperienced, Vertonghen's new and slightly out of position. Sandro's a superb player and he had another good game yesterday, but he's not a communicator. Lloris is new to the league and the language is relatively unfamiliar to him. It's a bit odd really, as Villas-Boas started off with massive criticism for playing too high a line, yet it's the way that the system gets abandoned towards the end of games that's costing us.
It seems to me that if you can't successfully play "arses to the wall" football ( which we can't) then you need to carry an obvious threat elsewhere to try and mitigate the amount of pressure you can be put under without danger of a counter attack. With Modric & VDV gone, Dembele substituted, as has been said, there was little threat of danger from our midfield. Take away Bale & Lennon and you have no threat out wide either. In fact, you carry no recognisable threat anywhere. In which case, the confidence of the opposition that they can throw practically everything at you, without much fear of a response, will increase dramatically.
PNP, I thought that you were of the impresson that we didn't need another playmaker? just a replacement LB and a striker? please correct me if If wrong) To be fair to gallas, he was good yesterday, but he's been very poor in general. completely agree with your last sentence. spot on.
I'm not sure how one would fit in, Roo. If we're willing to drop/rest/whatever players like Dembele or Adebayor and we can bring someone truly influential in, then great. I just think that we'll struggle to bring in anyone that's good enough to justify pushing a variety of players down the pecking order, unfortunately. We're desperately in need of more options up front and a proper left-back, though. It's typical that Rose appears to be excelling on loan, yet we wouldn't let him go out last season and we didn't need him.
Ok roo, you make some valid points so fair play The point about Norwich, was he brought verts on, and used him as a defensive midfielder (if my memory serves me right) and i'm pretty sure if we look on the norwich match thread you will see fans wondering why we allowed Norwich into the game, when it was ours to win, However you have to understand we're looking at this from slightly different angles. You're giving Villas Boas the benefit of the doubt and clearly believe he is doing the best with what he has, at his disposable. I on the other hand don't fully believe this, and can see aspects of his management which concern me and am not that hopeful that the returning injured players will change a great deal, apart from the defence, If you look at our current squad and the players that are fit, there is enough quality for us to play a better passing game, instead Villas Boas often gets the system wrong and we're left playing crap football or waiting for Defoe to save our backside. Playing Ade & Defoe for me doesn't work in a 4-2-3-1, and if we play 4-4-2, its too risky with the high pressing game, and I would assume Villas Boas only went with Ade/Defoe as he moved Dempsey to the left and wasn't that confident with Falque or Siggy to start. Was Carroll injured? He could have taken a chance on Carroll, who for me deserves a chance and pushed Dembele further forward, as that allows us more options to pass the ball and keep possession, taking the pressure off our defence...If Carroll was injured then for this game I can accept Villas Boas didn't have many options, YET that doesn't excuse the crap football we have been playing and the other matches we have allowed the opposition back into the game by sitting too deep.
for me, it's: GK RB CB CB LB Sandro/Parker Dembele Lennon NEW CREATIVE PLAYER Bale ST Dembele's qualities allow him to run the ball out of defence and find a pass, which turns defence into a very very dangerous counter attack. Therefore, I'd rather he was sat alongside Sandro and/or Parker. - let's face it, both of those two are going to need to alternate, as Sandro is gonna be buggered soon if he carries on like this. I don't think we should be playing parker and sandro alongside one another. - we'll have the "turning defence into attack" problem again, imo. However, it might work as part of a new formation. If that "new creative player" is moutinho, he and dembele can swap positions during game quite easily. Bother operate well as box to box midfielders. but this is the crossroads we're at IMO. unless we get someone like that, we're not going anywhere. if anything, we might go backward slightly, with everything/everyone new at the club taking its toll over the course of a season, which is understandable. - however, that's not going to get us in the CL anytime soon and not going to keep the likes of Bale at the club! I think Rose is shining because Sunderland for whatever reason, aren't particularly good. I've never been a massive fan of danny rose. i think he's been overrated since that goal against arsenal and IMO if he came back to us, he'd look very average again.
Cheers Boss! I missed these discussions when you went MIA! Your'e right, I'm giving AVB the benefit of the doubt. I have never been pro AVB, but I will never be anti AVB either, until he's given a decent run with all players at his disposal, and properly backed by Levy. Fair play Boss, It's interesting to see your thoughts on those elements that concern you. - you mention that you don't think a lot will change when those injured players return, apart from the defence. In my eyes, that's the biggest problem sorted. Stability and quality in Kaboul and Benny. As for the passing game, it's a funny one, that. I'm probably going to open up a whole new can of worms here, but I actually think that the passing in general is pretty good. (prepared for a grilling here!) yesterday, we showed just how good on the ball our back line were. there was some great passing just behind the half way line, which i know is an area of no threat, but we were patient until we found the right time for a pass out wide to the likes of Lennon in space. I'll say it again. - There's just certain players who don't possess the skillets required for this type of football, which is why the football is looking bad in general, as they cock up possession. we need players who are quick on the ball, have a good first touch and will spot their next pass before they've even received the ball. There's players in our team (not mentioning any names) that are just too slow and do not have those attributes. They are good footballers, but not if this is what we're trying to implement. I don't actually think this was too much of a problem yesterday, other than about 2 players and 1 other who is normally better. But in general, this is the case, IMO. - This is why I thought we played quite well overall. Everton were just better.
Roo So when we have the following team Lloris Walker Kaboul Verts Ekotto Sandro Dembele Lennon Dempsey Bale Defoe Note I put Dempsey in the CAM role, as we don't have anyone else (and Villas Boas favours him there), unless we sign someone in January, but looking at that line up, which is realistic in the near future, I don't think any excuses can be made for Villas Boas if we're still lacking style and aside from the 1st half against man utd, the football for me has been largely dour. I know you say you like the football being played, but the general view does seem to be that we're fairly boring to watch, apart from short spells in certain matches. Overall the football we're playing under Villaa Boas doesn't give me the same excitement, yet if we can play like we did against man utd away (for that 1st half) and be dominant then that is something to look forward too
Only saw the first half. We passed it around nicely at times but having 2 up top left our midfield and defence a little light when we didn't have the ball, whilst failing to cause many problems going forward. As I say, I don't know what happened in the second half but we should not to play 442 away from home, especially against good sides like Arsenal and Everton. AVB needs to stick a rocket up 'em though after conceding 2 goals like that. It's not so much that they're late goals that bothers me as much as it is that we've been winning and conceded 2 goals in a matter of minutes against Norwich, Chelsea, Arsenal(okay, drawing), United and now Everton. You can't switch off in games at this level and I think every player should have a look at what exactly they were doing in those minutes surrounding the goals. Conceding one goal is annoying and costs you enough without doubling the problem almost immediately after.
In general, no, you're probably right there won't be many excuses. However, That position doesn't favour dempsey and it's glaringly obvious. it's also a very important position where an attack can break down in seconds as the area becomes very crowded. this is where we miss the intelligence of VDV and why more creativity is needed. So unless Levy gets us who we need and backs the manager, I still won't put the blame solely on AVB as it's not just that 1 position, it's quality cover for a couple of others, such as a LB and a striker that are also needed. However, we should be much more comfortable and look a lot more reassured with those names back in the team. As a result, I would expect better football, and I'm sure it'll happen. - for example, Benny and Bale get the best out of one another. Kaboul and Verts will work very well, and even caulker if one of them is being rested, as he's a top young player.
Yeah that position doesn't favour dempsey and i only put him down for that role as being realsitic thats where villas boas will play him, I, like you, want to see us buy an attacking/creative midfielder and would love to have a young VDV there, with dembele in the centre!
If AVB can't make that team work (or with Parker next to Sandro and Dembele instead of Dempsey) I'll be joining in the criticism!
It doesn't matter who goes where, the style we're trying achieve is about keeping possession, and we don't do that enough, we're just not very good at tight intricate passing. Also, the players that we have mostly have an average first touch at best. Poor movement makes passing even more difficult aswell, compounding the issue.
I don't like that system with those personnel, to be honest. I'd go for either the 4-4-2 or Dembele in the attacking midfield role and either Carroll or Huddlestone alongside Sandro with Adebayor as the lone striker. Defoe's got a good goalscoring record up top on his own this season, but our performances have suffered and we've struggled badly to keep hold of the ball in some games.
