You "deserve"to win a game where you score more goals than the opposition. That's the point of the game. Possession, the way you play etc, none of that is remembered. But for a last death ricochet off a defenders heel against a poor, poor United side, we'd be on the same points as you. You hardly have the moral high ground here. What you do have is a collection of talented underachievers.
Unlike the first time he was with us? If anything he's more of an asset to us now than when he was with us first time round. I guess that, put simply, players are often sold by clubs when the player is on the way up and bought back by clubs later on when, by definition, they are often on their way down. But there have been successes and Defoe and Kaboul are two examples. Crucially both were re-bought with more experience but still very much on their way up. If we bought Berba I'm sure there's a big chance he'd disappoint many. (I'd still have taken a punt on him, mind). Keane didn't work second time round cos the partnership with Berba was gone. Berba somehow made Keane go up a level.
Tottenham Hotspur Player's Combined Goals & Assists updated after the 2-2 draw at Chelsea... please log in to view this image
I think that fans often know a lot more about their clubs than the pundits do, though. They watch them week in, week out - sometimes the pundits just seem to be aware of the results. I often hear them say things which, as someone who pretty much ONLY watches Spurs and watches them all the time, I know is not right. I'd expect many (most?) people on here to be able to judge Spurs' current form better than your average pundit. I for one think we've been nowhere near as dangerous, inventive or exciting as we have been for at least the last three years. Don't really blame AVB that much - think the players we have are not quite as good. Remember the good old days when people were moaning about only having players like Krancjar and Pav and Corluka on the bench? We could have done with a Krancjar or Pav on the bench a few times this season. And I couldn't stand Pav! And mentioning the loss of Modric and VDV is unnecessary as is the problem of Ade having a contract in his pocket weighing him down compared to last season (though he did very well today). I'm not sure if it's AVB's style that is making the players play all these backwards/sideways passes or whether they're just technically not as confident in themselves and their team-mates as in recent seasons. I'm hoping it's a bit more of the latter than a conscious plan on AVB's part.
You took the post right out of my hands lenny. I woke this morning thinking that we are not as effective as with Harry but it's only AVB's first season. I was also thinking that would Chelsea have beaten a full strength Utd side? I don't think so. I stand by what I posted that fans are more critical of their team's play than pundits. Fans expect great things and become hyper critical when said things don't happen.
I haven't had a chance to see it again, but what do people think of the time when Bale knocked it past Cole and was blocked off? Clearly the ref thought Bale was looking for a free kick - and admittedly gave him one right at the end (!) - but I thought that occasion on first sight was more clean cut, even should have given a yellow to Cole. Neville thought Cole was 'being clever' so I guess he thought it was too. But as I said I haven't seen a replay and Sky in their wisdom didn't provide one at the time. What really happened?
Although in general a point at Stamford Bridge is always a good result, this actual time it's dealt a pretty big blow to us now. Top 4 is no longer in our hands which is a massive shame. Performance wise, I felt Chelsea were marginally better but Adebayor was head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch (did I just say that?!). When you see him play like that you just want to throttle him and say "where the **** were you for the rest of the season!?!?!". He was immense, held the ball well, tracked back, made forward runs, scored a blinder, won aerial duals, set up Gylfi... That is a performance from a top draw player. If he'd played like this on a regular basis, NO ONE would be criticising Levy and bemoaning the fact we don't have a "world class" striker as on his day, as he's proved, Ade can be that. Unfortunately he's been so **** this season that we've forgotten how good he can actually be. Thought our midfield trio of Parker, Hudd and Holtby were well below par. The second half Parker improved and started to get stuck in but Holtby deservedly was subbed and Hudd playing the 90 minutes amazed me, I really wanted Carroll to come on for him. Bale was also off form (due a bad game I suppose, just a shame it was this one), I think I said on another threat that whenever one of our players talks to the press about how up for a game they are, they end up having a stinker, Bale spoke to The Sun and he was pretty much a non-entity yesterday. Didn't help that he kept getting clipped by Chelsea players with Dean letting it slip but even so, he had very little impact. Delighted for Gylfi to grab that goal. His performances stuttered a bit in recent weeks so getting such an important goal like that will have done great for confidence. Here's hoping we get maximum points from our last two games with Arsenal and/ or Chelsea slipping up enough.
did sky even show a replay of that? don't worry, PNP will turn up in a minute with one of his gif moving image thingy majiggy's.
I could say the same for many Spurs games this season, in particular the last minute own goal at Wigan from a free kick that never was. You are behind Chelsea because you don't score enough goals hence lack creativity and rely largely upon long distance shooting. When Lennon is fit and with playmakers like Modric you offer a lot more versatility in your attacks, if you identify a replacement for Modric you'll definitely make top 4 next season providing Bale isn't sold. Not sure I agree with the underachievers thing either. We're a side in transition and have played well over 65 games this season. The squad has been stripped to the bear bones and the core of our side is now 23 on average. Azpilicueta, Hazard, Oscar first season in English Football. No real striker for the entire season. We always knew we would be behind the Manchester clubs this season, so I'd say 3rd is where we should be at all circumstances considered. If we can add a trophy to that then great.
Oscar, Victor (Moses), Romeu..... Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Mike Echo, Chelsea are even buying the police alphabet too!
I do think you've underachieved this season DL. I appreciate you say you're in transition and that's a fair point taking into consideration a change of manager mid-season and seeing players come and go but when you've bought players for £32m and £20m (plus whatever Ba, Moses, Azpilicueta and Marin cost, I'd say a combined for £30m roughly?) it's not such a normal transition as it would be for a team signing bargains/ freebies/ lower league players. After coming off the back of a CL win, and spending around £80m on transfers, there has to be an element of expectation and this season, although you've reached the Europa Final which is a good achievement, it's not the competition Abromavich wants his club and his millions challenging for. You've finished well below a Utd side that surely you should've been challenging for the title with this year? I'm not saying you've had a terrible season by any means, but I do think underachieving would be a fair assessment.
Some fans and i'm including myself, some other Spurs fans, and members of other teams, need to be a bit more consistent with their arguments. Man U/Arse/Chelsea/City play poorly, don't deserve to win games, but do win the games. This situation is often portrayed with "sign of a good team to win when playing badly. Spurs play poorly, don't deserve to win games, but do win the games. This situation is often portrayed with "Spurs are a lucky one man team". Our form is pretty much identical to last season. Check the tables. Our swagger and dominance in the games is less so, i think most would agree. Our resolve, concentration and lack of capitulation (in games and in league) is an improvment on last year. Last season we went 11 unbeaten and we were literally creaming our pants I didn't know the 2 defeats in 20 stat until this thread. You can't do that in the premierleague with 1 player (no matter who he is) or with luck.
The club has underachieved but the players haven't. It isn't their fault the idiots on the board have stripped the squad to the bare bones. Oscar in his first season in Europe/English Football has played 62 games this season. Ramires has played more than that. We have only 3 established CM's. That can't be right. I can't fault the players at all. Board are to blame, players have overachieved under the circumstances IMO.
That's because there's no appreciation amongst modern football fans for the defensive side of the game. Your win against Southampton, Lloris' contribution was completely ignored. Bale may have won you that game, but without Lloris you'd have lost it. It was the same for us in the CL re: Drogba.
Yes, and i'll admit to a certain amount of "lucky Chelsea" from me for that. But when you sit back and (try) to look at it objectively i think most would agree its pretty damn difficult to go 10ish games unbeaten in the prem/2 defeats in 20/win the CL based purely on luck or with 1 good player. The football chelsea played in winning the CL was not stellar. The football that Spurs are playing now is not stellar (apart from the odd spurt). They both achieved/are achieving results. Chelsea's football this year has been improved, helped a lot by the purchasing of some pretty tasty players. If AVB can add that in for next year without losing the solid (for Spurs) base then we'll challenging again and we may even pick up more points than this
Spurm : There are those (here and elsewhere) that don't like what the stats are telling them, The stats are telling me that collectively the squad is of a certain steady level. The points and GD that will be accrued, the number of losses we will suffer etc. Whether those points come in that magical P11 W10 D1 of last season, or the workmanlike steady efforts of this season, is moot. What is being questioned is whether the latent ability of the squad is far greater than its recent performances suggest, and whether AVB is the manager to unlock that extra performance.
