Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Brighton & Hove Albion

[remembercolinlee]

This is where I differ. I still think this squad and manager are miles off a European trophy. You need a consistency that Spurs lack.



There is just as many downs as ups. 7 league games and 3 wins and 3 losses. Beating Coventry, Qarabag and Ferencvaros can’t really be regarded as ups.

We played 83 mins plus added time with 10 men v Qarabag so a 3 nil win is an excellent score line for me.
Ferencvaros hadn't lost at home to an English side since 1969.
On top of that they have played a total of 19 games against English Clubs (before playing us) and only lost 6 time (home and away)...apart from Leeds x4, they played United x3 (won 2) Liverpool x4 (Won 2), Millwall x2 and Wolves (winning 1v each). And we played a team that had an average age of 23yrs including 3 teenagers. So that's a big up imo.

The only up v Coventry was the last 4 minutes but that also shows that while we are brittle at times we also have a backbone at other times.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Thanks RCL I don't feel so bad about you being top scorer in the Spurs league now

I do

 

[Dier Hard]

Extremely bumpy, but it is the manner of that defeat that kicks you in the gut. Having said that I would be astonished to see any sackings unless it seriously spiralled out of control....

Ten Hag and O’Neil are probably the only two in danger of being sacked any time soon.

I think we’ll see some sackings around Jan-Feb-March as that’s when clubs panic. I hope Ange isn’t one but if we don’t pick ourselves up and continue on a ratio of losing almost every other league game, I don’t hold much hope for his future.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Extremely bumpy, but it is the manner of that defeat that kicks you in the gut. Having said that I would be astonished to see any sackings unless it seriously spiralled out of control....

Last season was the first time in 5 years that a coach completed a season. Sacking another one within 2 seasons wouldn't be that shocking.

If we're struggling for European football, Daniel will be surveying his potential options. It's what he does.

 

[Dier Hard]

Last season was the first time in 5 years that a coach completed a season. Sacking another one within 2 seasons wouldn't be that shocking.

If we're struggling for European football, Daniel will be surveying his potential options. It's what he does.

Exactly what I’ve said. We’ve seen 23 years of Levy’s decision making, the moment that extra financial income of Europe becomes bleak, someone gets axed, and it can’t be players (at times I wish would’ve been!) and it won’t be him.

 

[BinghamSpur]

Ten Hag and O’Neill are probably the only two in danger of being sacked any time soon.

I think we’ll see some sackings around Jan-Feb-March as that’s when clubs panic. I hope Ange isn’t one but if we don’t pick ourselves up and continue on a ratio of losing almost every other league game, I don’t hold much hope for his future.

Whether he's here from the summer is up to debate but I cannot see, or indeed want to see, any manergerial changes unless it becomes a massive downward spiral.

Personally can't see that happening but it is a massive shame that there is now a break and players going away....

 

[Fox Mulder]

You should try and sly into a super league under the veil of a successful club.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

14/15 was Poch’s first season though, this is Ange’s second, if we’re comparing the two then immediately it puts Ange on a downer because we should be better than another manager’s first year, especially as Ange has spent (even taking into account inflation differences) far more than Poch had spent. If we then compare it with Poch’s second season, we’ve lost 3 league games already in our first 7, it took us until the 21st game of 15/16 to lose our 3rd league game.

I’d also say that with Poch, we saw steady progression from his first season through to about season three and it’s what always kept fans happy as even in tough times there were signs of “something good was around the corner” with him. The first notable improvement was fitness. Then defensive cohesion and then general improvement in our play. For as much as Ange’s idea of football is great to get behind, this team at present is no better than last season, not even marginally. Defensively we’re still an absolute mess, today in fairness was probably the first time I’d blame the players more than the system for the defensive catastrophe but nonetheless it feels like a recurring theme of bemoaning about our defensive issues.

I don’t want Ange gone, far from it even if I don’t think he’s doing as good as he should be, but at the same time I know how this football club operates under this ownership, if European qualification is looking beyond reach around Feb/ March, the manager’s almost certainly gone.

You're missing two crucial differences.

1) Poch benefitted massively from every single big club being in flux during his first few years. Pep and Klopp hadn't got into their stride, United and Arsenal were coming apart at the seams and Chelsea were in one of their traditional post-Jose transitions.

2) You've highlighted this yourself many times. Poch was given Toby and Son in his second summer. They slotted in and improved the team instantly (in Son's case: almost instantly). Ange didn't receive anyone this summer who did that, with a small argument to be made that Solanke is technically an improvement on Richarlison, but otherwise it is exactly the same team.

For these reasons, I don't think comparisons are fair.

 

[Dier Hard]

Whether he's here from the summer is up to debate but I cannot see, or indeed want to see, any manergerial changes unless it becomes a massive downward spiral.

Personally can't see that happening but it is a massive shame that there is now a break and players going away....

I hope he’s here for next summer, even if I do think he’s underperforming as a manager at present.

But what I hope/ want and then expect are probably two different things. I think we’re at about 8 losses in our last 14 league games if we include the poor run at the end of last season, that’s around bottom half form.

 

[KingHotspur]

If we're struggling for European football, Daniel will be surveying his potential options. It's what he does.

He’s completely right to survey potential options if that’s the case.

 

[Dier Hard]

You're missing two crucial differences.

1) Poch benefitted massively from every single big club being in flux during his first few years. Pep and Klopp hadn't got into their stride, United and Arsenal were coming apart at the seams and Chelsea were in one of their traditional post-Jose transitions.

2) You've highlighted this yourself many times. Poch was given Toby and Son in his second summer. They slotted in and improved the team instantly (in Son's case: almost instantly). Ange didn't receive anyone this summer who did that, with a small argument to be made that Solanke is technically an improvement on Richarlison, but otherwise it is exactly the same team.

For these reasons, I don't think comparisons are fair.

Utd and Chelsea aren’t great right now.

Ange wanted and got the £65m Solanke. He could’ve quite easily demanded another big player for the first XI. He himself said he was very happy with this summer’s business too.

Son was the backup option to Berahino and had a poor debut season.

 

[BinghamSpur]

I hope he’s here for next summer, even if I do think he’s underperforming as a manager at present.

But what I hope/ want and then expect are probably two different things. I think we’re at about 8 losses in our last 14 league games if we include the poor run at the end of last season, that’s around bottom half form.

Unfortunately you're right and there is yet another Chelsea reject hovering in the wings....

 

[Dier Hard]

Unfortunately you're right and there is yet another Chelsea reject hovering in the wings....

A lot will naturally come down to Levy’s resolve, plus the potential added factor of the home crowd, lose them and it becomes tough to see a future, just ask Nuno! Right now they’re well on side I’d say but I don’t think fans will be accepting this sort of form for too much longer, especially considering how much this club charges us, you can’t charge for a fillet steak and deliver a McD’s hamburger.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

There is nothing that the manager can do about that during a match

Of course there is. Brighton started the 2nd half on the front foot and we lost control from then. The goals may have been down to individual and group errors, but that was symptomatic of how we were playing from the 46th minute. The players out there were evidently not going to correct the situation but Ange took 75 minutes to make a change: 10 minutes after we had gone behind.

For clarification I am not considering a change of coach at this stage, but Ange has to take some responsibility for this abject performance from a position of strength.

 

[KingHotspur]

We played 83 mins plus added time with 10 men v Qarabag so a 3 nil win is an excellent score line for me.
Ferencvaros hadn't lost at home to an English side since 1969.
On top of that they have played a total of 19 games against English Clubs (before playing us) and only lost 6 time (home and away)...apart from Leeds x4, they played United x3 (won 2) Liverpool x4 (Won 2), Millwall x2 and Wolves (winning 1v each). And we played a team that had an average age of 23yrs including 3 teenagers. So that's a big up imo.

The only up v Coventry was the last 4 minutes but that also shows that while wr ate brittle at times we also have a backbone at other times.

Ultimately beating a second tier team, a team from Azerbaijan and the Hungarian champions is exactly what Spurs should be doing and certainly for me, it’s not an up to win against those sides.

Even the two league wins recently. Brentford at home is always a match you should expect to win and a win against a rotten Man Utd side, you have to say they were both very winnable games.

I didn’t see today but I knew today was a barometer of where Spurs are. They lost and now sit in 9th. Only the bottom three and Everton have lost more league games this season.

Even the manager has come out and said it’s the worse defeat since he’s been at Spurs.

 

[KingHotspur]

Unfortunately you're right and there is yet another Chelsea reject hovering in the wings....

Thomas Tuchel?

Gonna get pellets for this because so many like Ange but personally I’d take him all day long at Spurs over the Australian.

I know some really enjoy Angeball but I can’t get my head around how open Spurs are and how easy they give up chances, for me if you play like that then it’s almost certain you won’t be successful. Tuchel’s style might not be as attacking but he’s a top tier coach who’s won the Champions League and worked with top class players and big egos before.

 

[Dier Hard]

Thomas Tuchel?

Gonna get pellets for this because so many like Ange but personally I’d take him all day long at Spurs over the Australian.

I know some really enjoy Angeball but I can’t get my head around how open Spurs are and how easy they give up chances, for me if you play like that then it’s almost certain you won’t be successful. Tuchel’s style might not be as attacking but he’s a top tier coach who’s won the Champions League and worked with top class players and big egos before.

I actually think Bingham may have meant Potter (could be wrong).

So there's two former Chelsea managers available, Levy's gonna have a **** over that! .

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Thomas Tuchel?

Gonna get pellets for this because so many like Ange but personally I’d take him all day long at Spurs over the Australian.

I know some really enjoy Angeball but I can’t get my head around how open Spurs are and how easy they give up chances, for me if you play like that then it’s almost certain you won’t be successful. Tuchel’s style might not be as attacking but he’s a top tier coach who’s won the Champions League and worked with top class players and big egos before.

Like Mourinho....and Conte. And our trophy cabinet remains a respiratory health concern!!

 

[BinghamSpur]

Thomas Tuchel?

Gonna get pellets for this because so many like Ange but personally I’d take him all day long at Spurs over the Australian.

I know some really enjoy Angeball but I can’t get my head around how open Spurs are and how easy they give up chances, for me if you play like that then it’s almost certain you won’t be successful. Tuchel’s style might not be as attacking but he’s a top tier coach who’s won the Champions League and worked with top class players and big egos before.

Oh make that 2, I had forgotten him!

Now i was thinking Potter but can see the appeal of Tuchel and nothing would surprise me at this club....

 

[PowerSpurs]

It is also good to remember that football match results are driven quite a bit by luck so with only a small sample of games, goal difference is a much better indication of performance than points. Our is 6 after 7 matches which if continued would come to 33 over the season. That is top four form.