Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa

[Dier Hard]

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Tel, Odobert and Simons all had lots of the ball in the final third, but didn't do anything with it.

This is all becoming too much of a recurring theme too.

It feels harsh to say but right now Tel and Odobert are absolute dogshit. That’s not to say in 2-3 years they won’t be good players but they’re midtable Championship calibre at present and that’s where they should’ve been sent in the summer to develop. From Kane and Son to these two is a painful realisation of just how much things can change in football in a fairly short space of time, and also a sign of negligence on the board’s part to have zero adequate replacements in place for our former star’s departures (Solanke and Richarlison are also nowhere near the required level).

As for Xavi, and I’ll sound like a broken record, the biggest fear I had was that Bundesliga attacking mids and/ or wide forwards have really struggled in the Prem over the last 10-15 years. Podolski, Mkhitaryan (sp?), Kagawa, Werner, Sancho, Nkunku and now currently Wirtz, Gittens and Xavi have all looked like fishes out of water despite doing between good and great in Germany. On paper it was/ is an exciting signing for the club, he’s the type of name and reputation that Spurs should be targeting but I just have serious worries about his ability to adapt to a league where space is very hard to come by unlike in the Bundesliga. In his defence, a lot of pressure has probably been thrown on him so quickly after the injuries to Maddison and Kulu but so far he’s failed to handle that pressure and it’s hurting us as we seriously lack creativity through the middle. For the time being I’d rather we give Bergvall a go at 10 and have Xavi on the bench and ease him into games.

 

[BinghamSpur]

This is all becoming too much of a recurring theme too.

It feels harsh to say but right now Tel and Odobert are absolute dogshit. That’s not to say in 2-3 years they won’t be good players but they’re midtable Championship calibre at present and that’s where they should’ve been sent in the summer to develop. From Kane and Son to these two is a painful realisation of just how much things can change in football in a fairly short space of time, and also a sign of negligence on the board’s part to have zero adequate replacements in place for our former star’s departures (Solanke and Richarlison are also nowhere near the required level).

As for Xavi, and I’ll sound like a broken record, the biggest fear I had was that Bundesliga attacking mids and/ or wide forwards have really struggled in the Prem over the last 10-15 years. Podolski, Mkhitaryan (sp?), Kagawa, Werner, Sancho, Nkunku and now currently Wirtz, Gittens and Xavi have all looked like fishes out of water despite doing between good and great in Germany. On paper it was/ is an exciting signing for the club, he’s the type of name and reputation that Spurs should be targeting but I just have serious worries about his ability to adapt to a league where space is very hard to come by unlike in the Bundesliga. In his defence, a lot of pressure has probably been thrown on him so quickly after the injuries to Maddison and Kulu but so far he’s failed to handle that pressure and it’s hurting us as we seriously lack creativity through the middle. For the time being I’d rather we give Bergvall a go at 10 and have Xavi on the bench and ease him into games.

It's very hard to disagree with you on this.

Perhaps a bit harsh on Tel and Odobert, but I do see where you are coming from. Two or three years down the line I have seen enough in them to feel they will come good, but now is not the right moment. Due to our ever increasing capacity to sign players made of glass we are in a bit of a hole and yesterday you did feel that they could still be playing now and not scored another goal!

H going was a massive blow for us and you knew it was a void that was never going to be filled easily, if ever, but I think Maddison is becoming a huge miss for us. There just does not appear to be much in the way of creativity coming from the middle at the moment. Simons will take time to adjust, he had moments yesterday but looks a long way off it as yet.

Anyway, I never really expected much this season in all honesty so not overly surprised at the way things are going at the moment but Frank has to be careful that the very fickle home support does not start to get on his back too much, especially if the home form is going to nose dive.

The only upside yesterday was that I bagged an upgrade to 1st class on the train back for a tenner. Now going forward that is definitely the way to travel....

 

[Dier Hard]

It's very hard to disagree with you on this.

Perhaps a bit harsh on Tel and Odobert, but I do see where you are coming from. Two or three years down the line I have seen enough in them to feel they will come good, but now is not the right moment. Due to our ever increasing capacity to sign players made of glass we are in a bit of a hole and yesterday you did feel that they could still be playing now and not scored another goal!

H going was a massive blow for us and you knew it was a void that was never going to be filled easily, if ever, but I think Maddison is becoming a huge miss for us. There just does not appear to be much in the way of creativity coming from the middle at the moment. Simons will take time to adjust, he had moments yesterday but looks a long way off it as yet.

Anyway, I never really expected much this season in all honesty so not overly surprised at the way things are going at the moment but Frank has to be careful that the very fickle home support does not start to get on his back too much, especially if the home form is going to nose dive.

The only upside yesterday was that I bagged an upgrade to 1st class on the train back for a tenner. Now going forward that is definitely the way to travel....

Yeah I’ve often felt Maddison got a bit too much stick from some of our fans last season but I think people are now seeing just how crucial he is when he’s out.

I’m hoping the support don’t blame Frank for much yet, albeit I do think he needs to tweak the midfield a bit in home games. He’s been a bit too conservative than I’d have liked in them. Palhinha and Bentancur are the pairing for away games in my opinion but for home ones, one needs to drop out (Bentancur at present, Palhinha is undroppable) for either Sarr’s running or Bergvall’s passing to give us more umph in midfield. The Conte Bentancur would’ve been perfect with his box to box abilities but I think the ACL has rendered him more to being a deeper CM.

The failure to sign a top LW has also hurt us more than I initially expected but that’s obviously not something I can blame Frank for. I thought we had a really good summer window (for a change!) and that a LW would’ve made it a perfect one but it really does look like a missed opportunity now. Kudus has been great on the right but we’ve not got an equivalent on the left, had we signed someone like Semenyo, I think we’d be sitting on wins vs Bournemouth, Wolves and Villa this season, or certainly have turned two of those losses into draws at the least.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

This is all becoming too much of a recurring theme too.

It feels harsh to say but right now Tel and Odobert are absolute dogshit. That’s not to say in 2-3 years they won’t be good players but they’re midtable Championship calibre at present and that’s where they should’ve been sent in the summer to develop. From Kane and Son to these two is a painful realisation of just how much things can change in football in a fairly short space of time, and also a sign of negligence on the board’s part to have zero adequate replacements in place for our former star’s departures (Solanke and Richarlison are also nowhere near the required level).

As for Xavi, and I’ll sound like a broken record, the biggest fear I had was that Bundesliga attacking mids and/ or wide forwards have really struggled in the Prem over the last 10-15 years. Podolski, Mkhitaryan (sp?), Kagawa, Werner, Sancho, Nkunku and now currently Wirtz, Gittens and Xavi have all looked like fishes out of water despite doing between good and great in Germany. On paper it was/ is an exciting signing for the club, he’s the type of name and reputation that Spurs should be targeting but I just have serious worries about his ability to adapt to a league where space is very hard to come by unlike in the Bundesliga. In his defence, a lot of pressure has probably been thrown on him so quickly after the injuries to Maddison and Kulu but so far he’s failed to handle that pressure and it’s hurting us as we seriously lack creativity through the middle. For the time being I’d rather we give Bergvall a go at 10 and have Xavi on the bench and ease him into games.

It's certainly a major concern and what's more worrying is how we keep spending decent amounts of money on multiple average-looking players, instead of a larger sum on a single player of genuine quality.

I sincerely hope the summer's mess of a transfer window will be the last we ever see, one final act of illogical stubbornness by Levy.

But we shouldn't be too harsh. The bigger problem is that there is no-one in the middle weaving it all together. I think that this is one of Solanke's strongest attributes. He isn't a great goalscorer by any stretch, but his movement, strength and willingness to run makes him a real asset in bringing others into play and creating more time and space that the likes of Simons, Tel and Odobert clearly currently need.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The drop from Kane to Solanke is pretty much the same as the drop from Solanke to Richarlison. The latter is a truly horrific CF. Came on yesterday and barely touched the ball.

 

[KingHotspur]

Frank needs better and experienced players. The club need to stop worrying about the future so much and focus on the present. Tel was poor in his loan period and imo was a big mistake to sign him permanently in the summer. Odobert was another strange signing as he didn’t do anything of note at Burnley. Xavi Simons has a decent reputation but it’s gonna take time for him to get used to the PL and Spurs need someone who is ready now.

For me the big miss is Kulusevski. Having him in the 10 role with Kudus on the right would make Spurs a lot more dangerous.

As 99% of us say, Spurs still need a quality LW

 

[remembercolinlee]

Another thought is that Frank is really experienced in the Championship and Premier League and has been given time to develope players and build a squad.

He has no experience of European football, let alone the CL or the demands of so many midweek games.

It seems clear that he is rotating players in order to keep everyone match fit and not burn others out but that will lead to some wrong selections at times.

 

[Spurlock]

I think Frank needs to realise this is not Brentford FC

I feel like we play with shackles

 

[Dier Hard]

I think Frank needs to realise this is not Brentford FC

I feel like we play with shackles

Yeah I think he’s gone a bit too conservative at times, especially in the midfield. Albeit I do have some sympathy because with an attack of Tel, Odobert, Kudus and Xavi (plus Richarlison) at the moment, there’s just one player that opposition defences actually have to worry about.

 

[Spurlock]

Yeah I think he’s gone a bit too conservative at times, especially in the midfield. Albeit I do have some sympathy because with an attack of Tel, Odobert, Kudus and Xavi (plus Richarlison) at the moment, there’s just one player that opposition defences actually have to worry about.

Kudus getting slightly found out I feel too tbh

oppo show him inside as he prefers outside…goes outside anyway and is getting squeezed out. Now and again that burst of pace is working for him and he can have his way by speeding down the wing …slightly concerned he’s going to run out of ideas.

 

[Dier Hard]

Kudus getting slightly found out I feel too tbh

oppo show him inside as he prefers outside…goes outside anyway and is getting squeezed out. Now and again that burst of pace is working for him and he can have his way by speeding down the wing …slightly concerned he’s going to run out of ideas.

I just think he’s having to try and do too much because no one else can. If we had an equivalent on the opposite flank or up top, there’s less pressure on him to deliver all the time. Right now, to stop Spurs’ attack all you need to do is stop Kudus. Back when we had Kane and Son, if you managed to stop one (and even that was rare such was their quality), the other would likely deliver. Stop Kudus and who delivers? No one.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

There's truth in almost all the comments above, so I guess we're in the **** for the foreseeable future!!
Seriously though, Kudus is being overused and under-supported as the main attacking option. Double up on him and frankly that closes us down as a serious attacking threat.
And I get the need to rotate a limited squad, but I still find the decision to start with Palinha (who should start every game if he physically could!) and Bentancur seemed overly negative for a home game against a PL rival that we really needed to win, or at least make a statement of intent.
I do also think Romero's absence was significant - more so than I would have previously expected if I'm honest.
And basically, the bottom line is we just don't have those necessary 'finished articles' available right now to make the difference.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

There's truth in almost all the comments above, so I guess we're in the **** for the foreseeable future!!
Seriously though, Kudus is being overused and under-supported as the main attacking option. Double up on him and frankly that closes us down as a serious attacking threat.
And I get the need to rotate a limited squad, but I still find the decision to start with Palinha (who should start every game if he physically could!) and Bentancur seemed overly negative for a home game against a PL rival that we really needed to win, or at least make a statement of intent.
I do also think Romero's absence was significant - more so than I would have previously expected if I'm honest.
And basically, the bottom line is we just don't have those necessary 'finished articles' available right now to make the difference.

One graph I have seen underlines our lack of progression through the middle, which is why Xavi was often playing in a different match to his teammates at times against Villa

And, at the risk of making this sound like bashing Bentancur, it's hard not to notice we're better in that area when Sarr or Bergvall start

 

[Tilly'sowner]

I think Frank needs to realise this is not Brentford FC

I feel like we play with shackles

Yup, I said yesterday that the loss was down to the manager.

He needn’t set us up too defensively at home.

And his substitutions were panicked subs where we ended up in a bizarre formation with players confused as to what they were meant to do. The subs were reminiscent of Ange’s tactics where he would throw caution to the wind and just play everyone up front in the hope of nicking a goal.

It just smacks of desperation and led to a completely disjointed team in the final 15-20 minutes.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I thought that we were the better team and were unfortunate to lose that one.
Didn't take the chances that we create, but didn't give too many away, either.
The balance of the side started a bit off and ended up way out of whack, though.

Tel, Odobert and Simons all seemed to want to drift to our left.
That left nobody in the box and nobody anywhere near Kudus.
More of a training adjustment than anything else though, hopefully.

I haven't watched any highlights yet.
Was there anything to the 2,000 handball calls?

 

[BinghamSpur]

Kudus getting slightly found out I feel too tbh

oppo show him inside as he prefers outside…goes outside anyway and is getting squeezed out. Now and again that burst of pace is working for him and he can have his way by speeding down the wing …slightly concerned he’s going to run out of ideas.

It seemed obvious yesterday to me yesterday on high that Villa had seen he was the main threat, and there was none on the other side at all. So at times there was 2 or 3 players marking him. We badly need a similar presence on the left side to compensate.....

 

[BinghamSpur]

I haven't watched any highlights yet.
Was there anything to the 2,000 handball calls?

Nah I didn't think so. The one big shout, the guy was about 2 metres away and the ball was fired straight at him with his arms crossed. I actually thought the ref did the game quite well..

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Was there anything to the 2,000 handball calls?

None of them were even close. Unlike other posters, I didn't think the ref was good, but they got all those calls right imo.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Our issues are all up front at the moment. They scored 2 superb goals, not much we could do about. Should have had 2 or 3 more of our own. No one looks like scoring currently.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Our issues are all up front at the moment. They scored 2 superb goals, not much we could do about. Should have had 2 or 3 more of our own. No one looks like scoring currently.

Or linking up play. I think one of the reasons Tel, Simons and Odobert are all struggling is that there is no focal point tying it all together. No one making runs to pull the defence out of shape. No one holding the ball up to create pockets of space.

Not upgrading Richarlison in the summer was absolutely criminal. Our first choice striker is mid table quality and his deputy wouldn't be out of place in League One. In fact if his name was just Richard, that's probably where he would be.

Solanke should be back up to someone of genuine quality. The Brazilian should be moved on asap.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Our issues are all up front at the moment. They scored 2 superb goals, not much we could do about. Should have had 2 or 3 more of our own. No one looks like scoring currently.

This is why Sarr and Bergvall offer us something else, as they push up through the middle so we have greater numbers heading into the final third, which also (theoretically) creates space for Xavi