To a degree I would say that Poch has been dealing with players that either have the wrong attitude or show a disregard to putting in a shift on the pitch, such as Adebayor, Kaboul, Capoue and Assou-Ekotto. The problem is that, BAE aside, we have been unable to shift them in the general direction of the door so they're taking up valuable real estate in our squad, which mean our options are limited to: i.) Paying off their contracts to free up squad space: we could do this with BAE as he would have been out of contract this summer - but Kaboul and Adebayor are under contract until the summer of 2016, while Capoue until the summer of 2017, which would be far more costly ii.) Dropping the player from the squad to free up squad space: we did this with BAE at the start of the season, but we had two other left backs to pick. Also, although we could have (in theory, not necessarily in practice...) brought in a quality replacement in January, paying two or even three players to not play for half a season would be a bad use of resources iii.) Bring in/promote an U21 player: on the one hand this would be very helpful, as we could use Premier League rules to our benefit by having a little more depth to the squad (something we clearly need in central midfield at the moment) the issue remains that the squad needs a little experience to guide the players as they develop, something they won't get if we brought in/promoted a player who is U21
I agree about the attitude of certain players. However, part of MP's Job is man management and motivation. To be fair to Sherwood, he got Ade playing - albeit briefly. I just sense that our manager isn't able to communicate with the players effectively. Maybe that's down to language, maybe it's down to poor man management. I just can't accept that we have so many, apparently demotivated players, who are just there for the ride. For me, it must go deeper than that.
Its difficult to shift players out like Ade, Kaboul, Capoue, BAE etc. who aren't playing regularly/aren't proven in the PL/have bad reputations, especially when they're relatively high earners on longer contracts. As HBIC says too we are limited in our options even if we could get them out - we need reinforcements in many areas, so dropping players out of the squad like we did BAE or paying off contracts isn't always feasible, we need to sell them in order to raise funds for replacements. Its a time consuming process, finding the right buyer for players like that, because they're all pretty big risks in their own ways. Pochettino appears to now recognise who he can rely on and who he feels he can't. Its taken him a bit of time to do this but that is understandable, player/manager relationships will often change after the initial honeymoon period of a manager's tenure. True, Sherwood got Ade playing NSIS but he also fell out with other players, Pochettino has got some of them back onside (Lloris springs to mind) and isn't getting on with some others. That happens I guess, every manager has his players and its only with the Ronaldos and the Messis of this world that the manager has to be the one to bend. Its hard to accept that there seem to be so many demotivated players, and indeed some who are just so poor. The trouble is that we have players like Davies, Yedlin and Stambouli who we can't really judge yet, players like Ade, Capoue and Kaboul who seem to have the wrong attitudes entirely to work under this regime, players like Chiriches, Paulinho, Dembele, Lamela and Soldado who just don't cut the mustard, and then the rest who can be a bit of a mixed bag in terms of ability but seem to have the right attitudes at least. There are too many there who cannot be relied upon to perform to the standard required, and unfortunately a lot of them cost us a fair few quid too. Its a mess and there is a hell of a lot of work to do this summer.
it does go deeper, they're de-motivated and not very good footballers. The problem we have is we're always going to get the players that none of the champions league teams want unless we buy really young and hope they develop
I'm no great Sherwood fan either. I guess I'm just more willing to do what Levy probably won't. Mistakes must be first recognised, secondly dealt with, swiftly and decisively. Yes,that will involve taking losses and maybe Levy isn't prepared to do that. But, it's what needs doing. I still believe that there's a 'failure to communicate' here. You can tell when a manager has his players behind him 100% and all on board about what they're being asked to do. I'm not sensing that right now.
It is telling that several of the players who can be accused of showing poor attitude this season have previous in this, whether under previous managers or at other clubs... Adebayor: do I really need to comment? Assou-Ekotto: was a pain when AVB was in charge, and was acting out when on loan at QPR (hence Harry passed on him last summer) Capoue: put in the effort in the first few games, then his workrate nosedived dramatically, whether it was AVB and Poch in charge Vertonghen: spent most of last season moping on and off the pitch, whether it was AVB or Sherwood in charge The only exception to this is Kaboul, who hadn't been a problem under Jol, Ramos, Redknapp or AVB yet has been a problem under Poch. The biggest mistake Poch made this season is the fumble with the captaincy: while an argument can be made about the logic of giving Adebayor the armband at the start of the season to keep him sweet, it still looked as bad a decision at the time as it does now.
To be fair there isn't 1 person in that squad capable of being a captain. I've never been a fan of goalkeepers being captains as they're not involved enough. Kane as back up is ridiculous really since he didn't get in the first 11 until novermber
Add to that there's players I certainly wouldn't want to see wearing the armband: Vertonghen's worn it a couple of times and shown the leadership qualities of a pencil sharpener, Soldado may have been captain at Valencia but he's hardly going to inspire his teammates as he has no confidence at all, while Chiriches being Romania captain makes me think that Romanians are so scarred by Ceausescu that if they see anyone with leadership qualities they call for the nearest available firing squad. As for Capoue being captain of the France U21s, I keep getting a mental image of the Costa Concordia for that. There was a thread about captaincy and leadership a few weeks ago (here, in fact: http://www.not606.com/threads/captaincy-and-leadership.294850/) and the only names to get mentioned as a credible captain were Bentaleb and maybe Dier.
Cos he has not had the time to shape his squad with his players...he has been stuck with players that he doesn't want...some will be sold like holtby and lennon. Others will only be sold if the club agree to take a big loss on them (lamela, soldado and paulinio). Ade may get loaned out if we sub his wages. That's 6...none of whom are starters (and in all honesty i think he only likes lamela). When you add in chiriches and kaboul it leaves a lot to get out before he has money for replacements
I've always assumed that it was Sherwood picking Adebayor that caused his difficulties with the rest of the squad. At the end of last season Sherwood had the choice between playing a disruptive prima donna or sticking with Soldado. The first of those was likely to get better results in the short term. The second was more in the long term interests of the club.
Speaking about Poch and motivating players etc, haven't we had this convo before, just with different managers' names - AVB/ Sherwood/ Poch? I really don't feel the problem lies with the manager anymore, three managers all with different approaches to the game can't all be bad at "motivating" a bunch of players. Southampton's players loved Poch, Porto's players loved AVB and on current form, you'd have to say the Villa players are certainly enjoying it under Sherwood - especially Benteke! So why is it regardless of who we have in charge with us is it always down to them not doing enough to motivate the playing personnel? I just don't buy that anymore I'm afraid. I was massively critical of AVB and also got pissed off with Sherwood in the end but now I'm starting to think both guys were just doomed from the start with the players they had to work with. Poch has started weeding out all the deadwood and those he deems aren't trying enough, we could experience a massive clear-out in the summer with the likes of Kaboul, Chiriches, Paulinho, Capoue, Adebayor, Soldado and possibly Dembele and Fazio, too (I also wouldn't lose any sleep over Walker going, though I know he won't), yet despite a massive number of outs, I don't think it'd have too bad of an effect on the squad other than lacking depth - which some of it can be replenished with Pritchard, Yedlin and Alli along with any new signings. Very few players have done themselves justice this season, most of them being the more inexperienced ones which says a lot about the older head's attitudes. Only Lloris, Rose, Dier, Bentaleb, Mason and Kane have had what I believe to be a strong full season with Chadli and Eriksen having had great spells though have gone off the boil, besides them no player has truly justified his place in the squad. I very much believe in Poch taking us forward but to do so he needs the backing of Levy in being able to bring in and ship out the players he wants.
I think that there are problems caused by having a lot of games and not having the right squad to deal with it. Clubs like Villa and Southampton have a first team, a group of bench players pushing for places and then youngsters. Everyone's got a rough idea of where they are in the pecking order and there aren't many opportunities for burnout or being left out in the cold. It still happens to the odd player here and there, but not whole chunks of the squad. The Champions League sides have massive numbers of players available to them and enough proper games for them all to be included. There's some expectation that most of the team will be rotated at some point, so they don't get too pissed off when it happens. If anyone runs out of steam or becomes a liability, then they've got the depth to deal with it. We've hit a sort of middle ground in the Europa League, where we require a large squad but can't keep enough decent players happy. This campaign has exaggerated the effect, as our youngsters have usurped a bunch of players who think that they should be starting. Those supposed big names get huffy about being picked for the cups and left out of the league games, then play like crap when they're called upon. We've now got a mixture of disinterested players looking for the exit door and inexperienced kids who've lost their way a bit. I've no idea how to deal with this situation and move forward, to be honest. Do we buy players over the heads of the kids and hope that they don't turn into the huffy squad players that we're trying to shift? Do we stick with the youngsters and hope that they come good, replacing the deadwood with more youth players?
We always have this argument crop up when we things start going wrong but what's the basis of people's opinions that the players have bad attitude? Seems to me it's just based on form, this time last season Rose was in that group that apparently didn't try and didn't care and now he's playing better he's not. Surely you guys aren't just basing it on form but what else is there in the public domain that we can judge them on? Do the players need to drop to their knees and bawl their eyes out when they lose, should they start punching themselves when they make a mistake. what is it we want from them? The only one I believe has a bad attitude is Adebayor and that's because he has a history of turning up when he feels he has something to prove and then disappearing at each club he's been at. After that there have been insinuations about a couple of players, like Capoue and Kaboul, which leads me to question whether they are giving their all but that's about as far as it goes. It's a big accusation to make on not very much, I'm just glad players at the club don't read this thread as they would rightly feel very insulted.
"We've hit a sort of middle ground in the Europa League, where we require a large squad but can't keep enough decent players happy. This campaign has exaggerated the effect, as our youngsters have usurped a bunch of players who think that they should be starting. Those supposed big names get huffy about being picked for the cups and left out of the league games, then play like crap when they're called upon. We've now got a mixture of disinterested players looking for the exit door and inexperienced kids who've lost their way a bit. I've no idea how to deal with this situation and move forward, to be honest. Do we buy players over the heads of the kids and hope that they don't turn into the huffy squad players that we're trying to shift? Do we stick with the youngsters and hope that they come good, replacing the deadwood with more youth players" Then you require BUY-IN, not buying. I would prefer to sign new senior players, but be honest about the grand plan. If they are required to add general steel/leadership to/for the kids, but when all is fair weather the kids are going to be playing the great majority of games, then so be it. Problem is, I don't see the notion of "intellectual reward" (which is what the above is) existing in the days of easy PL money.
If we were to observe Spurs with no attachment to them, and, perhaps, no knowledge of their wages, I think we would be less likely to attribute their failures to lack of effort. My first hand knowledge of the sports world is of low level amateurs. I almost never saw a lack of effort as a problem with competitors there. Therefore, I have trouble believing it's a problem for successful athletes with millions made and riding on their performances. I also know that one reasonable plan to get the best out of yourself is to improve your relaxation while competing. I was always a big Pete Sampras fan because I could see him doing exactly that, I thought, while playing. It was comical how commentators often interpreted this as "bad body language" specifically or as a kind of indifference in general. So he had bad body language on the way to winning seven Wimbledons. I'm not sure, but I think I see the same thing in Adebayor. Some people do better, in my experience, by running around like madmen, but not everyone. Others need to withdraw into themselves to do their best. To an idle observer, the latter look like they aren't trying as hard as they should be. My guess would also be that, for whatever reason, the hustle bunnies tend to be small and compact, the Zen masters long and lean.
