Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal

Morning, people.

How did the game go ??

Only saw MOTD highlights and that doesn't really tell much
on action/stats (other than Ser Davos can feel a bit hard done
by another Mike Dean "talking point" ) .

 

I cannot see Citeh collapsing and all our other PL
title rivals similarly faltering this season to see Spurs in.

 

How did we ever manage to get 86 pts last season and
push Chelsky to week 36 without NOT beating any of the
top 6 away etc ... ??

 

100%. I agree with you. But I'm talking about in the context of yesterday's game, rather than the season as a whole thus far. Eriksen, Alli and Kane were bystanders for most of the game and that massively surprised me. Was it down to how effectively we pressed as a unit and shut down the spaces? Perhaps, but I still feel you guys didn't match our energy and if you had, it could have been a different game entirely.

One thing that was quite obvious was the lack of pace in your team/how ineffectively it was utilised. People can sometimes underestimate just how important pace is, particularly in a game where both teams like to play the ball and push high up the field.

With all that said, after performing like that, I am under no illusions that we will probably get bent over by Burnley at Turf Moor next week!

We certainly performed far better than I could have anticipated. Probably better than you guys anticipated as well. But it just seemed to me that you guys weren't at the races. I don't know whether that's to do with fatigue, niggling injuries or some players struggling to quickly get used to the intensity of the Prem after the International break. It just surprised me that, for all the talent you guys have in your team, we were fairly comfortable for most of the game. I don't mean this disrespectfully (and you've seen me post on here long enough to know I'm not a wind-up merchant), I just expected you guys to make us work for it more. Because apart from the opening 15-20 minutes, I didn't really feel threatened by you lot and it's very rare that any team, let alone us, can say that.

 

Fair comments as always BG. I was also shocked at Poch's complete disregard for pace in his starting line-up. Last season we tore teams apart using Rose & Walker down the flanks and bringing Son on to finish teams off.

This season we seem to have abandoned the notion that pace is a necessity. Partly due to injuries, partly due to new players not settling in quite as quickly as we hoped, but a lot of last season's intensity has been missing so far.

Alli somehow has 7 goals and 5 assists to his name but spends most games wandering around aimlessly. Eriksen and Kane didn't look fully fit and Dembele is sadly looking like years of playing like a pro wrestler combined with a figure skater is catching up with him.

Given our absences, walking wounded and team selection, it isn't surprising that the game panned out as it did.

But I'm not too down about it. Lamela is set to make his return which could well be the kick up the arse Dele needs. Rose is approaching full fitness and the two Harrys should be fully fit for next weekend.

I'd like us to rest as many players as possible on Wednesday night. We only need 3 pts to top the group and APOEL at home should be fine for that. WBA are reeling at the minute and we can and should get a big win to put yesterday firmly behind us.

As for Burnley, losing to them is no great shame. They are having a fantastic season and credit to them. Not pretty to watch, but Dyche is clearly the new Pulis.

 

Didn’t surprise most Spurs fans - and it was clear from the first few minutes that Kane was far from fit, likewise Alli. Eriksen reverted to a previous incarnation, but I wonder whether the euphoria of his midweek exploits took their toll.
Reduce the effectiveness of any team by 20-30% and there will be a price to pay. Unfortunately, that coincided with you managing to conjure up a cohesive and fast-paced performance and some dodgy officiating...... et voila!

 

Kane was fairly obviously not 100% fit. Eriksen does go missing in games and just when we are all thinking about 'resting' him he plays a blinder. Sadly for us that blinder was for Denmark this week. Dele is still very young (easy to forget) and IMO he needs the team to be buzzing to set him alight, he does not yet take games by the scruff yet. Dembele is not 100% either fitness wise but I thought like Pochettino did that we needed muscle in midfield, in hindsight we needed the flair and distribution of Winks, he should have started. So yes some of our players did go missing not for the first or the last time BUT IMO this is more to do with the opposition dominating the game and making us look worse. Fans often seem to overlook this as they always look at their own team first.
This season we made Liverpool look useless, last season it was the other way around. When a top side has a good day they can beat anyone and the opposite is true. I agree you would think Spurs players would be well up for playing Arsenal but if they were they were soon knocked out of it by a top quality display from Arsenal. Sometimes you just have to accept that on the day the other team outplayed you. Hopefully we can return the pain when you visit Wembley.

 

Fair comments. Notable that we have a more balanced assessment of the game by an Arsenal supporter than certain of our own so-called supporters.

 

You appreciate Ginger Marks liking your comment?

Now I doubt you

 

PNP :

Refer back to what I said to you a few months ago about the site crash.

 

Too many people relying and hoping for Lamela to give the team a boost. He can also go missing in games and isn't the answer to many of our problems.
The whole team will be resting on Wednesday night after flying back from Germany.( but not on Tuesday night when they will be playing football )

 

And if you had beaten any of the top six away - especially the one at the very top - you probably would have been title winners.

 

Chelsky won the PL by having W2D1 more than Spurs.
There were enough games last season that Spurs could
have done better in to have got those 7 points, that did
not involve a top 6 opponent.

 

A reminder of Chelsea's results away against the top six from 2014-15
Man City 1-1
Arsenal 0-0
Manchester United 1-1
Spurs 3-5
Liverpool 2-1

Six points out of a potential fifteen.

Similarly, here's Chelsea's away results against last season's top six
Spurs 0-2
Man City 3-1
Liverpool 1-1
Arsenal 0-3
Man Utd 0-2

Four points from a potential fifteen.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again - it will be rare for any top six team to have good away records against the others in the top six. Especially with how competitive it is at the top of the table. It is the home games and the games against the likes of Watford, Southampton, Swansea etc that usually determine who are title contenders and who are also-rans.

 

True, but not all wins are equal, even if they all carry just 3 points.
Winning at Chelsea would have resulted in a significant swing in points, but also boosted confidence, changed the momentum of the title race etc.
Beating other top sides in the top six would similarly boost confidence.
These things are intangible, I accept. It might have made no difference. But in a five game spell last season in the weeks before Xmas, you played Arsenal, Chelsea and Utd away and took one point from those three away games. You were beating all the other teams comfortably at that time. You were 10 points behind Chelsea at the turn of the year having dropped 8 points in these three away games in the few weeks beforehand.
Given the run you produced in the second half of the season, being 3 or 4 points nearer to them on 1st January might have had a positive psychological effect. Chelsea would have been in reach. It would have put them under pressure.
Yes, dropping points to WBA, Bournemouth & Leicester were just as crucial statistically, but between November and the defeat to West Ham in May, you won every game except away to Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd, City and Liverpool - and the one anomaly Sunderland, away (Won 18/24).
If you were able to win 18 and draw one of 19 games which weren't away to top six opponents, why fail against those top six teams?
Is there a psychological issue? Is it tactical? I'm sure that in the middle of this great winning run, Spurs were capable of going away to top six teams and winning, but consistently you didn't (and still don't). Why?

 

Completely agree. Needing to win away games at the other contenders home grounds is a 'self-evident truism' that is neither true or self-evident.

In the last 2 season we lost away to West Ham, losing that game cost us the same 3 points as did losing to United and Liverpool. The only game that would have been more valuable in terms of points gained was the game at Stamford Bridge. That was the real '6 pointer' and might have made a meaningful difference........if we'd won at West Ham and Sunderland, etc.

Even if you lose away to all the other Top 6, there's 33 games still to be won, that's 99 points that will win you the league every season. As with all 'punditry', it's total bollocks.

 

The only leagues where you find eventual winners having good records against the rest of the top six are those where the landscape is dominated by either one team or a very small number of them - La Liga, Bundesliga, Primeira Liga, SPL, Prva HNL are all perfect examples of this.

 

There is plenty of source data to correlate final position in the
top 6 with home/away performance against the final top 6.
You will get an answer either way on this particular claim.

 

The City result was crucial. City fell away badly.
The effect of being beat by a rival at home had a dramatic effect on City who had 30 points from 13 games before this