Torres

[Bozz]

Carroll went for a bigger upfront fee than Fabregas, that is wrong on every level.

Whatever Carroll is getting paid it is too much, He should be labouring on a building site thats about all the guy is fit for. He's not a footballer of any quality.

That is true but the fee is to increase based on Barcalona winning trophies and my figures were based on barca winning trophies (pushing cesc's transfer fee above Carroll's) as you'd have to be a ****** to bet against them at the moment.

Carroll is on a reported £80,000 while Cesc is on a reported £100,000 (it took some finding to get that figure) and then there is the fact that there is a 50% sell on fee should barca sell him, first refusal should barca decide to sell him and the waived compensation fees for Hector Bellerin and Jon Tora but hey.... don't let those figures get in the way of your opinions

and as for Carroll's football ability...

Robin Van Persie had a strike rate of 72% (League Goals per league games) while Carroll had a strike rate of 50% - Arsenal's team was better then both Newcastles and Liverpools last season (the league doesn't lie) and that isn't a huge gap - which is strange considering one is an established premier league striker and the other is ""not a footballer of any quality""

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I think Torres will come good this season. I certainly would rather have him at Spurs than Carroll.

 

[AdHominista]

I would take Suarez over Rooney. Rooney is quite hot/cold as a player. I can't believe that people have already forgot that for a good portion of last season Rooney played terribly. I expect a similar slump at some point his season due to the fact that his career has been a series of peaks and troughs. Suarez also has a far superior international pedigree.

For those who say that Suarez wouldn't be first choice at Man U.... well that is just incredible bias and/or ignorance.

 

[Bozz]

Bozz....Newcastle recieved a similar amount of cash, to what Arsenal did for Fabregas, that is the fact of the matter, regardless of wages.

While I agree that that is a fact, it is not the fact of the matter! The matter is the difference in value for transfer and when you look in to value you have to account for wages.

 

[King Shergar]

The fact is Arsenal gained 35 million for Fabregas, and Newcastle gained the same amount for Carroll. It makes no difference from Newcastle and Arsenals point of view, how much Barca and Liverpool want to pay in wages. They still get 35 million

 

[AdHominista]

The fact is Arsenal gained 35 million for Fabregas, and Newcastle gained the same amount for Carroll. It makes no difference from Newcastle and Arsenals point of view, how much Barca and Liverpool want to pay in wages. They still get 35 million

I think we also receive a portion of the transfer fee if Cesc leaves Barcelona for elsewhere. I think it is known as a sell on clause. I could be wrong about this though.

 

[Bozz]

I think we also receive a portion of the transfer fee if Cesc leaves Barcelona for elsewhere. I think it is known as a sell on clause. I could be wrong about this though.

50% plus you had compensation payments for Hector Bellerin and Jon Tora waived.

The fact is Arsenal gained 35 million for Fabregas, and Newcastle gained the same amount for Carroll. It makes no difference from Newcastle and Arsenals point of view, how much Barca and Liverpool want to pay in wages. They still get 35 million

That is a fact but it isn't the point. The point you are making is that because of that figure they are somehow worth the same, which is incorrect! Take away personal preferance and team success Do you think Barcelona could have signed Fabregas while only offering wages of £80,000 a week?

In fact, put this in to real perspective, Do you think Liverpool could have signed Fabregas while only offering wages of £80,000 a week?

Remember that Fabregas was on £110,000 a week already at Arsenal

 

[atcham jack]

he was cr*p for spain, had a cr*p world cup, was a carthorse at liverpool and again at chelsea. he may come good at the emirates. if you do not want him for 10 millions i am sure the shrews woulg go in with a 200k offer, but his wage bill would take a bit of a knock

 

[Lucaaas]

On the basis of a very short time in the PL! Fair play.

He's good, obviously, but in no way is on Rooney's level and on scoring record and the evidence of our own eyes Hernandez is as good, easily.
He's a better player than the rest yes, but I was only making a joke.


I know he has an accomplished international record but I'd personally like to see a full season, i.e. this season, of constistent scoring before bigging him up too much. You certainly got a better player than Torres with half the money accrued. Shame a **** load was also blown on an average CF. And that wasn't a joke.

To be fair he can be a brilliant finisher at times, but that's not his strength IMO, and I'd say the weakest side of his game while at Liverpool has been his finishing. The fact is when we bought him I thought he was going to be a goalscorer, judging him on his record in Holland. Yet when he plays he dominates games, he doesn't just score goals or create them, he absolutely bosses games everytime he's on. He's from that Rooney, Gerrard, Messi, Silva, Sneijder etc school of players who don't just create or score, they're involved in everything positive about the team going forward, and it's hard to judge his contribution by just using statistics.

I think Carroll deserves a bit of time, I'm not convinced by him thus far but he's obviously a good player from his time at Newcastle, whether he will be able to do the same at Liverpool remains to be seen, but I think he deserves a whole season at Liverpool before people judge him.

 

[Foredeckdave]

Suarez is no pikey, and he's better than most players in Man Utd's attack.

No. He's better than ALLthe players in man Utd's attack

 

[KingKennyYNWA]

I don't think the Suarez or Rooney thing is a real good debate, I really like Suarez but I could never refuse having a Rooney in the team, he is a proven goalscorer in the premier league, and is experienced at a young age. Suarez needs a couple of top seasons before you can compare him with Rooney as a player in our league. But his goalscoring record in holland is amazing look here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Su%C3%A1rez_%28Uruguayan_footballer%29#Career_statistics
Torres hasn't had form since his pre-world cup injury, he is eating lunch alone in the cafeteria and the interview he gave isnt going to win him any friends. I think he'll go to Athletico on loan next season if he doesn't start scoring.
Carroll just needs patience, he is young and has raw talent just needs some time to start using it, and cut down on the booze just for a year or so until he is in form and more comfortable in the Liverpool team.
Thats me done.

 

[Redditch Red Sox]

Apparently Carroll's fee was alway going to be -£15m from whatever Torres fetched. If Torres had had gone for £35m then Andy at £20m would've been perfect, less pressure, less expectation, and essentially the same amount of spending for the club. The exact inflated fees turned out to be a double edged sword deal for both clubs & the two players involved.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

i think all this is moot and it's best to say andy carroll is not in our first team right now so needs tostep it up and score goals to end all this debate that stems directly from the point that a 35mil player is on the bench

 

[Grizzly]

Apparently Carroll's fee was alway going to be -£15m from whatever Torres fetched. If Torres had had gone for £35m then Andy at £20m would've been perfect, less pressure, less expectation, and essentially the same amount of spending for the club. The exact inflated fees turned out to be a double edged sword deal for both clubs & the two players involved.

I heard exactly the same thing.
Sadly it was Chelseas unrelenting disregard for finance that dictated this deal, or at least represented their desperation
at the time, the eventual winners were Newcastle, but as you say both players now carry the price tag and who knows what effect that is having on their mental state.

 

[Lucaaas]

We had to pay whatever Newcastle wanted for Carroll, I can't believe people actually think if we'd sold Torres for £15m we'd get Carroll for free

 

[Chief]

No. He's better than ALLthe players in man Utd's attack

Yes Dave. And your midfield, goalkeeper and defence is better than ours too. And your manager.


We just win things, unlike your better team.

 

[Kop79]

Like mentioned above he is no longer a Liverpool player and we should forget about him

If he doesn't find his form and goals he will be an expensive flop 50mil£ OUCH

 

[gunnersurprisepeople]

That is true but the fee is to increase based on Barcalona winning trophies and my figures were based on barca winning trophies (pushing cesc's transfer fee above Carroll's) as you'd have to be a ****** to bet against them at the moment.

Carroll is on a reported £80,000 while Cesc is on a reported £100,000 (it took some finding to get that figure) and then there is the fact that there is a 50% sell on fee should barca sell him, first refusal should barca decide to sell him and the waived compensation fees for Hector Bellerin and Jon Tora but hey.... don't let those figures get in the way of your opinions

and as for Carroll's football ability...

Robin Van Persie had a strike rate of 72% (League Goals per league games) while Carroll had a strike rate of 50% - Arsenal's team was better then both Newcastles and Liverpools last season (the league doesn't lie) and that isn't a huge gap - which is strange considering one is an established premier league striker and the other is ""not a footballer of any quality""

I like the fact you are defending him fair play, but please do not even put him on the same level as RVP, it's pretty obvious that they are worlds apart in terms of ability and class, stats like that can be brought in for various reasons to suit ones argument.
If RVP career was not blighted by injury he would have a massive amount of goals for us, he is on 97 and will break the ton shortly, he's in a good run on the injury side and is a massive player for club an country when fit.

I wish no ill on the lad - Carroll but I just don't see any class in him, he's a handful with hie size and all that, but that's not asking much for 35m, granted this was an exceptional deal with the Torres move, another example of how football is gone crazy I guess.
Suarez is twice the player and I think that was a great buy for Liverpool.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

I like the fact you are defending him fair play, but please do not even put him on the same level as RVP, it's pretty obvious that they are worlds apart in terms of ability and class, stats like that can be brought in for various reasons to suit ones argument.
If RVP career was not blighted by injury he would have a massive amount of goals for us, he is on 97 and will break the ton shortly, he's in a good run on the injury side and is a massive player for club an country when fit.

I wish no ill on the lad - Carroll but I just don't see any class in him, he's a handful with hie size and all that, but that's not asking much for 35m, granted this was an exceptional deal with the Torres move, another example of how football is gone crazy I guess.
Suarez is twice the player and I think that was a great buy for Liverpool.

Your accusing Bozz of the same thing you've just done.

Torres has also been "blighted by injury",Torres "would have a massive amount of goals" only for his time on the treatment table.

How long has RVP been at Arsenal?,How long was Torres with us?,how long has he been with Chelsea?

All relevant.

 

[Grizzly]

We had to pay whatever Newcastle wanted for Carroll, I can't believe people actually think if we'd sold Torres for £15m we'd get Carroll for free

I was told the agreement had a minimum Carrol value of £15M (Torres £30m) and that this was in place before the Jan transfer window opened which is how Liverpool were able to get Carrol so quickly when Torres was a very late Chelsea signing