Neither mate, however you realised the latter after I'd started replying though mate, as you edited your post & the edited version appeared in my reply
You won a game, you have won a massive 3 all season and many of you seem incapable of finding fault with an average joe manager. Perspective or its all going to get rather embarrassing.
Yawn; you certainly have an opinion. Maybe its having it repeated in exactly the same superior condescending way over and over and over everyday that's getting on people's tits. You do know that if EVERYONE else thinks you are being a twat, although its not impossible they are all wrong, it IS highly likely you are indeed being a twat. You have that right of course. But don't kid yourself what you are doing is "banter" as banter is two or more people poking fun at each other light heartedly. Nothing you have written is witty or light hearted. There is no debate on the point you are making. Either you believe BR's statement is defeatist or you don't. Shouting the names of past managers & their specific set of circumstances isn't presenting proof its just smoke. As I or as Carra stated yesterday the players are still aiming high. BR will already have his parameters set by his bosses as to what qualifies as an acceptable season no matter what he says. So I fail to see the relevance of the point you are making or why (because you repeat it ad naseum it matters so much to you) or does it matter more to you that we acknowledge it and you?
Everyone? really, every single poster, amazing that you've managed to gather that data Frank, impressive stuff. Maybe it's because you know there's a ring of truth in some of what I say, it therefore strikes a chord, one that you'd rather not hear. So you therefore have to abuse & decry the voice that dares to express it, it's a common human reaction All I've had from you & couple of others on here is abuse, whereas some of your fellow reds have entered into sensible debate, it appears to be beyond you, as you're convinced that I've got an ulterior motive for posting on a football forum, lol. BTW, of course comparing standards from relatively recently has some form of relevance, as it shows how the bar has been lowered & with it the expectation level. You appear to accept this as being OK, that's fine, but it doesn't alter the fact that it's happened does it?
Would you like me to be scientific and do a poll? Lol. I think you'll find I didn't start abusing you when you began posting on here; even if you were being negative: as you say "debate" is good. As has already been stated there is no end to debate about LFC on this board, often between reds and often heated. You may have seen a growing number of people getting increasingly irate with one of our own who doesn't accept others opinions and just keeps droning on and on about the same negative subject. Maybe we should create a thread for the two of you? But you aren't debating, you're just repeating your opinion over & over no matter how Reds respond to you. And when someone actually states they don't like how you are saying what you are, you tell them to leave their own teams board. That level of arrogance is never appealing. what you are experiencing is also a common human reaction to such a constant display of arrogance & over inflated sense of self worth. A community accepts opinions it doesn't accept people that believe only their opinion is worth listening to. Ring of truth? That we have an annual target (i debate thats what he meant) currently that would not have been acceptable 25 years ago? Well aren't you the genius! Thank goodness you were here to give us that startling truth, because I hadn't read that on this board before you came along. Us mere mortal reds had not discussed to death that simply aiming for European qualification was an unacceptable end aim. But a team in transition has stages to build through. Some think we can do it quicker than others. Those believing it a slower process are not accepting mediocrity we are expressing a view of the journey back to the top but importantly still believe the top is the end of that journey. Chances are we will have the same debate next year too. Comparing BR's situation, the owners man so to speak, with that of two managers who either the fans or the owners did not want is pointless. If you were here to debate you would have seen many discussions on whether the reasons given for certain managers departures were true, you are taking those not largely accepted reasons at face value to support your point. A lot of us LFC fans believe that is too simplistic & therefore an erroneous position to take forward in viewing BR's comments and their real meaning. That's where we disagree with you. And its here you prove my point yet again. I and others have clearly stated to you that not only do we not find mid table as an acceptable annual target we don't believe BR does either. He hasn't set it as a target, he has expressed a realistic view of where he thinks we may end up. Yet you continue to ignore these statements or deliberately twist it to suggest we are accepting mediocrity so you can continue to repeat your inane opinions on the same old subject. It is not your opinion that we find uncomfortable it is your attitude & style of expressing yourself. We are bemused (excuse of local rivalry aside) by your obsession of our club, your "rights" regarding Internet forums and your expectations of how you think we should react to your written word. Personally I like the excuse to point people like you out, I find it as much a part of forum life as real conversation about football but that's just me. You appear to like giving it but not taking it if you'll excuse the expression. I personally think you are a WUM. Not all wums are obvious. Some like yourself attempt to twist every thread towards themselves with repetition of snide remarks or negative proclamations. So I just don't waste time pretending we are "debating" and call you what you are. Others like to egg the likes of you on. You may even be right and there are some LFC fans that believe you are genuine & treat conversations with you as such But the number of people who agree with my estimation of you appears to be growing....and fairly quickly. And yes, I'm not a pleasant person. I never claimed to be.
Garbage that Frank, I've responded to plenty of reds on here, conceded my point to a few & respected their opinions, if they've had the good grace to engage sensibly with me. I suggested that you might find a one team forum more to your taste, given the apparent disdain you have for other clubs fans having the temerity to state their opinion on Liverpool. I've no doubt that you already post on said board anyway, so maybe you need to remind yourself that not all forums are the same mate. As for arrogance, I think you're way ahead of me there, so hold the mirror up chuck. 25 years ago? I was referring to Houlliers dismissal wasn't I? which was 2004 i.e. 8 years ago, ergo relatively recently, not ancient history. Enlighten me regarding your view on Houlliers dismissal then, what did I miss by taking the 'face value' reason, that merely attaining CL qualification wasn't enough? Share your insider knowledge & superior wisdom oh wise one. He described finishing better than 8th as being - quote - "fantastic" this season, that sounds both like a) a target & b ) a target that he views as an achievement - albeit for this season. Please explain what hidden meaning I must have missed in his comment? That much is obvious frank & given that you appear to have enjoyed your attempted & prolonged character assasination of yours truly, so I think it only fair that Igive you my two penneth on how I perceive you petal. You're probably a child of the 70's or 80's who signed up for his chosen club when they were winning everything in sight. You're an armchair from the midlands who thinks that his replica top & Sky subscription makes LFC "his club", you're as bitter as hell, now that you're relatively run of the mill these days & I'd have my last quid that you can't say Liverpool, without adding "football club" to the end of it.
Obviously I'll let Frank respond to this **** but I have to ask why you obssess about where people are from? You mention it regularly as if it's proving some point about Liverpool fans all being armchair fans from anywhere but Liverpool. It's the internet...if we were all from Liverpool we'd just meet up in the boozer and talk footy there. Surely it's the nature of a forum so people from all over can talk footy. Did you not learn your lesson when you tried it with me only to end up looking a bit of a tit? I don't get the relevance. Are you under the illusion that all your lot live in the city and all go to the match every week?
Nitpicking proves my point. Repetition proves my point. Others have already answered you on the Houllier point. Told you I'm not going to pretend to debate & give you the legitimacy you so clearly crave. So lets see how your pop psychology went eh? Child of 70's - correct Reason for choice of club? - Came from a Rugby family until at the age of six my Scouser football mad Uncle showed me the light. I was actually that clueless about football I didn't know Liverpool were THE team at that point. So glory hunter? Nope. I actually think the first match I ever watched was a defeat by Everton. It took my uncle a while to educate me lol. Armchair fan? More than I like. But I have financial commitments I believe are a priority, like the roof over my head, food - I know! I'm a disgrace to football fans: no commitment. So yes due to this fact I purchased sky to watch the matches I can not get to. But you see I don't grade fans on what they wear or how many matches they go to. I see all my fellow Reds as equal to me while understanding that LFC fans actually from Liverpool may have a stronger emotional & spiritual bond than I have. You obviously have some kind of sliding scale you judge yourself & others on. Suit yourself. Midlands? Nope, try Northern Ireland, born here grew up until the age of 8 in various parts of England & then returned here. I can only assume there are people you dislike in the midlands eh? That list of people IS growing.....well now you can add N Ireland. Replica top? Nope only ever owned and wore one which resulted in our defeat against united in the FA cup my fellow fans (I'd use the word friends but that might be alien to you) believed I Scudded them, so banned me from wearing it again. But I often sit beside people who wear them on match day: does that count? Why would I add "football club" after every use of Liverpool? That wouldn't make much sense if I was say ordering flights to Liverpool etc. think you may however just have shown us a little of your bitterness there. It Must really do your head in that when people say 'Liverpool' then 'football' everyone immediately thinks LFC not Everton eh? And neatly on to my Bitterness. I don't believe so. Do I enjoy the fact we are not what we once were? Of course not. Do I hate other clubs for their taking over? No; as an adult I realise its cyclical, each team has its time to dominate, well Big clubs like mine, United and the cash rich teams of this era. Other's time to shine was distinctly shorter than ours but that's not our fault is it eh? I'm sure you enjoyed it before you accepted your lot in football life? I may be deluded and despite your brainwashing attempts I remain convinced it could be us once more; just not right now. The day I accept the mediocrity you have so lovingly embraced will be the day I stop watching football. Lets see what other generally accepted indicators of bitterness are there? Reacting negatively to others purely based on their affiliation to other clubs? Nope, I get on with many on here from other boards & welcome them here. People like Eric, Swarbs Drogs, even UIR (apologies if i have not named others its not a definitive list lol) have genuinely engaging Internet persona's. it's only narky know it alls or vile spouters of abuse (real abuse that is, not your version which is fairly delicate I have to say? Do you feel feint at the sight of blood as well?) that I react to. Childish of me? Quite possibly. This is the only football forum I belong to other than reading the odd blog on fan based sites or twitter. You've mentioned certain sites more times than I have (which is zero) so I can only assume your obsession with us is far reaching and beyond this board. Within this site I rarely go on to other teams boards, not because I dislike them but because I have little interest in doing so. And anyway I have no need as you are all here most days anyway. To me bitterness would consume me, you know make me want to go onto rival teams boards and keep giving my opinion whether its welcome or not. I'd know almost as many stats about said teams as I did my own. I'd constantly feel the need to give my opinion about said teams news and goings on. But other than playing them Im just not that absorbed about others clubs. I never claimed to be a student of football. I never claimed to he superior in this subject or feel the need to show others how much I know about their clubs...... So overall I'd give you a two out of ten. Interesting that you relied on fairly stereotypical imaginings to fuel your dislike of me. I on the other hand just dislike the only bit I do know about you: what you've written on here & how you've written it. But thank you: you attempts at counter attack & quite transparent projection have been very revealing about you and confirm my earlier estimations. I do have one imagining of you. When you typed out that last entry, did you sit in a swivel chair with a stuffed white cat in your lap murmuring "well played Mr Frank but I think I have you now" No? Ah well that's a shame; the mania would have at least made you interesting.
Hate in when ex players give their opinions. It's never helpful and quite often propaganda/bollocks. Jamie has only said the place is up for grabs, but I still found it embarrassing to be honest.
I think it assists the club by lowering pressure on what is a very young squad. We have not had Champions League football for a while now, not only that we are constantly reminded how we are a big club and are under achieving whilst at the same time being told we are a club living on former glories. I am only interested in what happens from here on in. The youngsters do not have the experience and so removing the pressure from them seems a good move to me. The argument over Houllier seems a bit irrelevant to me, would you judge Moyes' performance against that of Kendall, in which case Moyes should be gone, however I think Moyes is one of the best in the league and doing a very good job with what he has. We are no longer the top spenders in the league, we have lost our footing and BR has a plan, so I will see where we are at end of season.
Yes; I'd rather they just concentrated on playing well enough to achieve it. As long as he didn't come out & say "this year is our year!"
Yeah - well he's not far off! We should be keeping our heads low and keep chipping away at the points - not raising expectations.
