Match Day Thread Toon vs Seagulls

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by cronemeister, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    **** me I'm so pleased I decided to watch it in the bar rather than go to the game with the rest of t'lads! One of my mates got his ticket for free, he was ****ing robbed in my opinion, I quite easily spent the ticket money on lashings of alcohol and some thai food.

    That was ****ing awful to watch. We literally cannot play football....at all. We can barely string 3 passes together and have to rely on our more "skillful" players getting the ball up the pitch (Almiron, Atsu, ASM), or we just lump it into no-mans-land. I remember Lascelles even having a foray forward down the touchline after picking the ball up and driving forward, only to be fouled halfway between the halfway line and their box. It's what our so called attacking players should have been doing all game. Every time we had the ball there was at least 1 brighton player hounding us very quickly...you wouldn't have thought we were at home if you didn't know.

    I have to single Shelvey out in particular though. This guy was being touted for England a couple of years back....that's how **** our choice of midfielders was at the time. He shouldn't even be playing premier league football now, he's a ****ing joke. He's far too slow (not saying he's ever been anything else), but his particular brand of football is just ****ing archaic now. He needs to **** off to the MLS and try his worldie passes over there every time he gets the ball, they'll ****ing love him over there.

    Bruce needs to get these players organised and ****ing drilled and quickly. We played some god awful stuff under Rafa but at least we had some organisation and shape.

    Having to rely on players like Ritchie, Yedlin and Carroll tells you all you need to know. I've no doubt that Almiron, ASM and Joelinton will come good, but not the way we are set up to play at the minute. We are far too deep and allowing the opposition to pin us back and dictate the games. Our midfield is too close to our defence leaving a massive gap up to Joelinton. He can hold the ball up pretty well but by the time we've got our arses in gear we've lost ****ing possession again. We're not gonna score goals if we don't have the ****ing ball, its pretty simple and basic stuff.

    One thing I will say is that we've had a pretty bad run with injuries from the outset this season and Bruce is still getting to know his players and where they best fit. This is the club's problem, namely Ashley and Charnley as we brought the guy in halfway through a pre-season tournament in Asia. He's had very little time to prep with the players at his disposal so I'm prepared to cut him some slack but that won't last long with me. I'm expecting to see a vast turnaround come the turn of the year onwards. If we're still seeing the same dross week in week out then he needs to be not here next season for me. Hopefully we'll still be in this division but I don't think I'm that arsed now if we are or not.
     
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  2. Steve Bruce

    Steve Bruce Well-Known Member

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    I don't see lump ball as a solution
     
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  3. I am Groot returns

    I am Groot returns I insist on a ban NOW please mods!!
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    Who did the MD thread?

    Who was drinking in a bar during the game?

    Who really is to blame?

    Answers on a postcard.

    <grr>
     
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  4. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of drinking in the bar during the game. I actually watched it in Rosies (haven't been in there for years)..love what they've done with the place, it's tremendous. Once the match crowd dispersed it was actually dead and a cracking place to watch the footie and still here conversation. Shame the football was ****e.
     
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  5. G4rdToonArmy

    G4rdToonArmy Well-Known Member

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    So poor, 29% possession at home against a team we are battling against to stay up against just will not work long term - against the top 10 I have no issues with trying to stay in the game and nick something but just thumping it long to an isolated striker will lead us down to the Championship.

    The only thing I would say is ASM looks like he can be the spark we need. The lad has to realize when to do his tricks and flicks though but if we can get him fit and firing alongside Joelinton and Almiron (who was awful at the weekend again - another glorious chance spurned) we could stay up.

    Also need Lejeune back ASAP, him and Lacselles CB's, Schar in midfield with Hayden clearing up in-front of them. Don't mind which formation (4-5-1 or 3-4-3) we go with but Schar and Hayden in midfield as a pair is a must while Schlongstaff is out.

    The main positive I took from the weekend is that crowd looks like its dropping ona game by game basis now and that football is not going to encourage anyone back any time soon.
     
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  6. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Active Member

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    For me, you start with an identity, the add the players as and when you can. Just "counter attacking" is bollocks, we have to be smarter. How should we counter, where should our attackers be when we're defending deep, how do we attack at speed? What was the role of Shelvey? Drop deep and pass 60 yards? It's hopeless and starts with the lack of inspiration from the manager. Against bigger clubs what's going to happen? Full backs are going to push on, so why not drop the traditional CF, go with a 'false 9' and play two attackers wide left/right. Then drop a CAM alongside two holding defenders to give you an outlet, sort of like a 5-2-1-2 - why must we persist with a big man up top, which is basically just giving the ball away when we get it back?? It's this kind of thinking Bruce doesn't possess.

    For games vs Brighton, how do we set up to keep the ball for more than 50% of the match? Why do we need a back 5 against Brighton? We don't. So what I'd do is evolve the 5-2-1-2 we'd use, by pushing either two attackers closer as more traditional strikers, push one defender into midfield and go straight 4-4-2, or 4-1-3-2, or some variation of that theme.

    What we're doing, with one isolated strikers and two banks of players, is out of date and unless you're running meticulous tactics, as per Rafa, you're going to be horribly exposed as players aren't simply playing on the front foot. Let's face it, players know much more what to do with the ball than without, but we're focused on the latter which hampers the former.

    All of these things are being done by managers like Klopp, Guardiola, Farke, even Wilder and Potter. The dinosaurs of the school of Ferguson - Bruce, Solskjaer, who manage with smiles and pats on the back - are completely lost.
     
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  7. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Active Member

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    I mean, the final thing I just can't understand is why we turn up on Saturday and look like it's the first time a team sheet and formation have been looked at? The players just look confused. I reckon Bruce has got less than half a dozen games before the players just stop playing for him. Pretty sure we'll be bottom by then as well.
     
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  8. G4rdToonArmy

    G4rdToonArmy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed with this 100% - You look at all the teams who have done well so far this season - high pressing teams!

    Doesn't mean they leave themselves out numbered at the back but the front 3-4 players and the midfield know they have to get into the oppositions faces high up and try and either force the opposition into a mistake or to play long. We on the other hand do the exact opposite - retreat early in our lines of 5 and 4, get back on the edge of the box early and then press out from there. If we are lucky and win the ball back we either just lump it long or lose possession or try and play out, get caught - as every player bar the CB's tries to bomb forwards to support an attack - and concede as we are then 3 defenders vs the high pressing from 3/4 from the opposition a la the first goal against Liverpool the other day when Atsu tried a Cruyff turn in our own defensive third...

    Bruce isn't good enough to play Rafa's tactics, hopefully he'll figure it out soon. He had the right idea pre-season trying to get someone up to to support Joelinton. Once everyone is fit I'd really like to see us go 4-2-3-1 with Carroll up top, Joelinton and ASM on the wings and Miggy behind the striker then supporting the midfield in defence. you won't get much defensive quality out of Joel and ASM on the wing but we'd be a lot more potent going forwards. Can also change that to 4-4-2 by getting Joel up along AC and Miggy moves out wide.

    Ideally:
    ------------Dubravka
    Manq-Lejuene-Jamaal-Dummy
    ----------Hayden-Schar
    -------ASM---Miggy---Joel
    ------------------AC

    Darlow, Yedlin, Fernandez, Longstaff, Atsu, Ritchie, Muto
     
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  9. Maximin Decimin Meridiin

    Maximin Decimin Meridiin Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of trying Schar or lejeune when he's fit, apparently the latter has player CM before. Would like one of the longstaffs next to him for more energy.
     
    #249
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  10. G4rdToonArmy

    G4rdToonArmy Well-Known Member

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    In an ideal world they'd both be in the squad - I'd say, currently in my humble opinion, Hayden is our top CM, if either of Leujune or Schar can play there as well I'd like them in and then Matty and Sean coming in to get experience as they are the future of our midfield but for the next few years I'd like to see them given opportunities while being given a bit of protection as well, maybe even loan Matty out for 6 months to get decent first team exposure. Then we can shift on Jonjo - who is a good player but not what we require in this team, he'd be a good player in a team like West Ham where they have a solid 2 CM's around him doing the hard graft while he plays the Hollywood ball's - and Ki.
     
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  11. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    Schar is not suited to playing in midfield in my opinion, and neither is Lejeune. I go as far to say I'm massively against the idea, and I can't recall a time where its worked. Sure the likes of Hierro, Desailly, Matheus, or say Mascherano have managed to play both roles. However we are talking about a different class of player. I remember Mbemba and Colo being mentioned in the same way - both were tried and the experiment immediately canned. I think it is easier for midfielder to play centre half. Centre half is a much more restricted role and therefore easier to adapt to. Central midfield is such a key area and you're understanding of the game must be spot on. Lejeune would be very badly exposed because of his lack of mobility. Schar would have more chance but he doesn't read the game particularly well and is prone to rash errors of judgement. Both have good passing for centre back, but neither show the ability to play little 5 yard balls pass and move required of a midfielder.

    Our best bet at present in there is to play the only holding midfielder we have, Hayden, alongside our best and most mobile ball player which is Longstaff. Hayden generally comes unstuck with his passing and when he has to be more than just a holder. Just play him deep and get him to keep is simple. Then use the Longstaffs alongside him. Ki and Shelvey need to be shifted ASAP. I wanted to give Shelvey a chance but I just don't see any desire from him. Ki is just magnolia and lazy. We have three dead weights in those two and Colback. Criminal really is such a crucial area of he field.
     
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  12. JakartaToon

    JakartaToon Well-Known Member
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    90% of the time that Watford had the ball was picking it out of the net and returning it to the half way line for kick-off.
     
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  13. Geordieginola

    Geordieginola Well-Known Member

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    I basically agree with all of this. The 5-3-2 formation is very negative at home and it never becomes a 3-5-2. If anything with Almiron dropping deep to get the ball it becomes 5-4-1 with joe being so isolated.

    A formation tweak to 4-3-3 with the right tactics and them players with maybe swapping some more attack minded midfielders would work.
     
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