Personally, I think the problem was less to do with the formation and more to do with the team's mentality and confidence after Everton scored their first goal. The team were doing fine up until the point that Everon scored, then for the rest of the half our passes were rushed and we gave away possession far too easily, we also started to defend far too deeply, giving Everton licence to come at us. If the first half had gone on another 5 minutes we would've conceded another goal, such was Everton's dominence in that period. Once NA had a chance to talk to them at half-time we kept possession better and were "braver" on the ball and defended far higher, although Everton took their foot off of our throats and were comfortable with the 3-1 scoreline. We are still a young team, still learning, and we will become mentally tougher with experience, Everton at Goodison is one of the hardest fixtures this season and I agree with Itchen North Matt that we should stick with our natural game as we will win more games this way.
I see your point, but to be fair to them in other 3 games against the probable top 6 so far we have conceded 12 goals...so their "nerves" were perhaps understandable
I think it's more likely Everton got their game together and we couldn't live with them. Then in the second half they had no reason to attack, so we looked more comfortable, but we couldn't break them down.
Adkins got his tactics horribly wrong yesterday. 4312 would have been too much even with a trio of Schniederlin, Davis and Hammond (yes, i know he's unavailable) all sitting back. Playing it with Lallana and JWP who both like to get forward in the 3 was plain stupid. You can't expose the whole team for one or two player's benefit..the team performance should take priority. The defence had no protection at all at times from the midfield other than Davis who was trying his best but was left hopelessly outnumbered in the midfield and couldn't really contribute defensively as a result. I'd have preferred Puncheon to play instead of Rodriguez and to play 4231 again. Adkins was far too ambitious. I wouldn't fancy any side in the league to get a result playing our tactics yesterday. I understand he wanted Rodriguez to play after midweek but the Premierleague is a different proposition to the league cup and he could easily have come on after the hour and made an impact if he wanted him to play. Hopefully it's a lesson learned as I really like Adkins he just needs to gain experience and improve his tactical nous
I think Schneiderlin has played well, but I also don't think Schneiderlin would have made a difference vs. Everton. Ward-Prowse covered more distance than anyone in the league when he played against Man U. The Saints as a team have far and away covered more ground than any other team in the Premier League. It's nice to know that the players are fit and working hard... but maybe they shouldn't have to run so much, or for that matter make so many tackles. The Saints have been trying to play possession with a high line and keep the ball pinned in the opponents half. Everyone should have very little running or tackling to do if it's done right. They are running so far because the tactic isn't working so everyone has to chase all the way back. And they are also vulnerable down the flanks which means that central players like Schneiderlin are having to run more from sideline to sideline.
It would have made a big difference. We wouldn't have gone with 4312 for starters. We would have stuck with 4231(unless adkins has gone mad) and it would have been completely different. And Schneiderlin is a massive player for us in the midfield battle. Schneiderlin makes more tackles and interceptions than any player in the league and covers more ground
Took a long time to read such a good statement!! Up till now i only read how people were blaiming the defence and individual defenders but i agree that the main problem is the tactics of the team.
Definitely agree, I was worried and feared defeat was fairly inevitable as soon as I saw the line-up. The one thing that has stuck out as blaringly obvious about Everton so far is that they are incredibly dangerous in wide areas with Baines and Pienaar on the left, and usually less so on the right with Hibbert at RB, but with Coleman playing there when he is basically a RM, it should have been apparent these were their danger areas. Not only were we too adventurous in general, but not closing off those wide areas was suicidal. Playing four very attacking players, with Lallana and Rodriguez who have already this season proved their defensive work is not quite up to scratch, Ramirez who was famed in Italy for his poor defensive work-rate and poor defensive play in general, and Lambert who is... Lambert. You could basically write those players off from the get-go, then we played Davis and Ward-Prowse who are more attack minded centre mids, although this was more forced due to Schneiderlins injury than by choice. We completely exposed a shaky-defence and as soon as Everton took control of posession we never looked comfortable until late in the game when they were basically cruising to victory. I have a lot of faith in Adkins, think he has been fantastic for us and should be given a good amount of time to get everything going, but naive is just the perfect word for how we were set-up to play. I understand and like the fact that he wants to attack teams and try and wants to try and win games, but he sent the team out there poorly prepared and poorly set-up, and as soon as we conceded the first goal the wheels came off and we looked hopeless for the remainder of the first half. Hopefully he's learned that you can't go to places like Goodison and dictate the game. I get very tired of pundits saying things like 'Well Southampton were used to winning games in the Championship and League One and they're really learning the hard way that the Premier League is a lot tougher than that.', suggesting like we waltzed into the league like idiots thinking it would be a cakewalk, but it seems like we really do have a bit to learn, which I believe we will.
You're missing my point. Schneiderlin has become an excellent defender, but the number of tackles and interceptions he has made as well as the ground he has covered is in many ways a reflection of Saints being a bad team as opposed to Schneiderlin being a great player. When you win the midfield battle, your midfielders will have made a huge number of passes, not a huge number of tackles.
I'm sure Cortese will consider all your applications for the manager's job carefully. Anyone has got to be an improvement on Adkins though, right? Since everyone on here apparently knows better than he does...
I know what you are getting at . we aren't good enough to completely dominate possession so Schneiderlin is vital as he gets the ball back better than anyone else. so you are basically agreeing with me
On a football forum you discuss football. Football is a game of opinions. Perhaps we should just all agree with each other and debate nothing. Oh wait, there'd be no point in the forum then
Yeah, I agree with you Schneiderlin is a very good player, not quite at the very upper level yet but he looks like he will get there. A high work rate and the ability to play defense are obviously important for a holding midfielder, but I think what sets Schneiderlin apart is his ability on both sides of the ball. Not only can he make a tackle, but once in possession he can make the brilliant pass as well and his decision making gets better seemingly every game. I only disagree in that I don't think it would have mattered against Everton. I just don't think the game was really that close. Saints caught them by surprise perhaps by being so attack-minded early, but once they figured out what was going on they were able to counter our tactics with ease, and then just kill off the second half. I think if Schneiderlin had played he would have once again covered a lot of ground and made some interceptions, etc. but Saints would still have lost because our tactic failed. And to get back to the tactics subject. I think that teams that come into the Premier League really don't have much of a choice. Saints have already pushed the envelope as far as spending money and number of transfers coming in. But even with all that, you just can't acquire the World Class well-rounded players or alternatively a deep squad of specialists as a newly-promoted side. Your squad will have obvious flaws no matter what. So to some extent you have to pick a tactic and stick to it. And it probably doesn't matter what tactic you pick going up against top sides away because those sides have too much talent and they will dictate play regardless. So in that sense, yes Nigel Adkins picked the wrong tactic simply because there was no right one. If they had parked the bus, they still wouldn't have had an answer for a couple of moments of Jelavic magic. Had they covered the flanks, Fellaini would have shredded them down the middle. If they focus on Fellaini, Pienaar would have beat them down the flank. In a way, I'm somewhat happy with how things have gone so far. I think teams are starting to think that the results Saints have gotten are because they throw caution to the wind and try to outscore everyone. But they didn't score two against Man U because they went all-out on offense. They scored two because they were GOOD. In the end, they weren't good enough and also a lack of experience/team understanding cost them. So hopefully the less-dominant teams will think that Saints are an all-out attacking team and look to counter. If that happens, I think Saints have the quality to dominate possession and pick apart a defense and score a couple of goals thanks to some Lambert/Gaston brilliance. You can't counter if you can't win the ball. And if you have to have eleven guys back to win the ball, you can't counter. It sort of worked against Wigan, they just didn't score. But hopefully Saints will work out their problems on the right side with Mayuka/Lee or maybe Puncheon gets a little smarter about when to go for it or Jay Rodriguez makes some adjustment. If that happens, they can stay up. They still won't be good (yet), but they can be 15th.
However, consider teams such as Aston Villa away from home; look how cautious they were in the second half against Saints - no wonder they have no won away in 10 games and only scored 0.5 goals per game. Villa looked much more of a threat in the first half when they attacked. As has been said it is a balance.
