Too much negativity

BSG

BSG

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2011
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Ok this may be going against the grain of the general fanbase I don't see the reasons for so much negativity surrounding the club and the amount of criticism being levelled at Martin Allen. Firstly lets address the current issue with the form, yes we are on a poor run of form BUT there is still plenty of time to turn things around. At the start of the season we were in excellent form, now we are in a spell of poor form; this is not a new phenominon, it happens to all teams, look at Wycombe terrible start but does that make them a bad team? I would suggest no, as this run of poor team does not make us a bad team, our form earlier in the season shows what we are capable of and I have belief that we can rediscover that form. We look devoid of confidence at present a couple of wins and I am sure our swagger will come back.

Now the issue with the playing staff, I simply don't buy the arguement that we are worse off after the transfer window. The Payne deal was always on the cards, he was supposed to go in the summer but the deal fell through for whatever reason. I think that decision was out of Allen's hands. However, he try to get a suitable replacement as part of the deal in the form of Wright but Wright choose to go to Colchester instead, can't blame him really but you can't level any blame at Allen either. As for Jackman (and this will cause an uproar) so what? Jackman was never really part of Allen's plans so what was the point of keeping him? I believe people have rose tinted glasses over Jackman, yes ok he may have been voted player of the year last season but that was a team that wasn't even worrying the playoffs, the current squad is far better than than last season. Which leads me to the main point, the squad under Allen has been much improved, we have brought in some excellent players, Legge, Weston, McDonald and all come at a price so if we need to let a few bit-part, albeit popular players that is just the business. Who would you prefer Jackman and Essam warming the bench or McDonald knocking in the goals, because that is the choice, you can't have both I am afraid. I admit the signing of Gregory doesn't look like a shrewd move but he has only had a few games and we have to give him a little time.

Finally we are still in a strong position, forget the title the main aim of the season was to get promoted, and we are sitting in 2nd with 9points (i think I haven't double checked)and 2 games in hand over the playoffs, not a bad position to be in.

Glass half full please
 
BSG We have been in a poor run of form at home for too long. 5 points from the last 7 games is relegation form ( & 3 of those points were in that wind affected game against Northampton.)
I agree that there is plenty of time to turn things around.
I accept that we are in a healthy position in the league.
I have said, on numerous occasions that, at the start of the season we kept the ball on the pitch and actually strung a few passes together as we attacked the opposition goal. WHY have we resorted to hoofball ?
With regards to the playing staff - I'm afraid that we haven't replaced the holding / breaking up midfield players that were Payne & Wright.( & Jackman ) We have little creativity in the midfield and as much as I adore McDonald - if you don't give him a reasonable quality pass you can't expect him to score.
If we continue with that tactic( hoofball ) we will continue to slide down the table - we can still achieve 8th if we really try !
 
Brb is Spot on. If anything we have been over performing. The bookies are rarely wrong and they made us borderline for the play offs back in august

It's a bad run but there is a long way to go. There is sure to be a few more twists and turns yet.
 
No Always is spot on we are in relegation form and there is every reason to be concerned. very few points a change of style and very little evidence of the quality about earlier in the season. Hoofball has become commonplace as we have no creativity in midfield. I am worried and as for Gregory he simply is not good enough so put him on the bench and try to avoid bringing him on fir the rest of the season
 
Whitstablegills - thanks for your agreement.
On another point - does anyone think that Martin Allen / Scally etc reads comments on this forum ? I'm not saying that any of us are good enough to be football managers - but I genuinely believe that - like with many other matters in life - it sometimes is good to get opinions from a third party.
I have talked about reverting to the passing style of football of early season, and how I would like to see its' return. If Martin Allen can't / won't see what was successful for us in the first dozen or so games, I suggest that he gives a video of our games to a psychologist and asks for an honest opinion of what we were doing right - and what we are now doing wrong. Martin Allen needs to be able to accept criticism along with the plaudits - and to be able to accept constructive advice.
 
Alwaysright you ask why we have resorted to hoofball, the answer is simple. The Fans........

When we do try to pass the ball and a pass goes astray the crowd get on the players backs, some players more than others, this knocks their confidence and the easy choice from then on is to whack the ball as far up the field as possible.

I'm in total agreement BSG here, there is far too much negativity among "Supporters" in general and there has been for years. We only seem satisfied if we can have a moan and say "I told you so". Just look at other sites like that connect one, they were moaning that Barrett was "Stating the obvious". Not quite sure what else he was supposed to say to the press? If he had said anything else they'd have been on his back for being deluded. They are always looking to critasize the club at ever opportunity. This feeds into general fan base and makes things a whole lot worse.

We need to get behind the boys, not kick them while they're down.
 
BSG said:
Firstly lets address the current issue with the form, yes we are on a poor run of form BUT there is still plenty of time to turn things around. At the start of the season we were in excellent form, now we are in a spell of poor form; our form earlier in the season shows what we are capable of and I have belief that we can rediscover that form. We look devoid of confidence at present a couple of wins and I am sure our swagger will come back.

Glass half full please
Click to expand...


Facts from early season when "we were in excellent form"

game 1. Gillingham 3 Bradford 1 (home)

players who had all or some part of the game:- Jackman, Allen, Montrose, Payne, Dack.

game 2. Wycombe 0 Gillingham 1 (away)

players who had all or some part of the game:- Jackman, Allen, Payne, Dack, Davies.

game 3. D&G 1 Gillingham 2 (away)

players who had all or some part of the game:- Allen, Payne, Montrose, Davies, Strevens.

game 4. Gillingham 1 Chesterfield 1 (home)

players who had all or some part of the game:- Allen, Montrose, Payne.


I agree our form and play was better earlier in the season.
 
Geminiswiftgfc
1. Despite my username - I don't (always) have the correct answers.
2. I'm not sure that you can blame the fans for the team resorting to hoofball. I accept that fans can be quick to criticise when passes go astray -but that should not cause the team to panic and start to lump it. If we are going to do that, I have suggested that we need to deploy 4 up front ( taken from the midfield that we will be by-passing ) - otherwise we will lose possession a second or two after Nelson has the ball in his hands.
3. this is my main point - WHY have we persisted with hoofball. If we are to use your theory, Geminiswiftgfc, then surely the team should be able to see that this tactic if far from pleasing us at the present time - and therefore need to change the style - to- dare I say it , a more passing game - that was going well ( given the odd stray pass from time to time .) Martin Allen didn't need to change the style then - just because of a few loose passes ( whilst still winning games ) - but he certainly need to change our current style because we are losing too many games to remain in the top 7.
4. I don't like the amount of negativity that exists - but - we need to be pragmatic. There is a problem with our play - has been for too long at home. It is painful - but it cannot be ignored. I don't doubt that Martin Allen has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know - but in my honest and humble opinion he has let the current loss of form go on for too long. We've had a brilliant first half of the season. I'd hate for it to go wrong................... This time last year ( 13 Feb ) we played Southend at home in front of Sky. We lost 2-1. At that stage of the season Southend were top of L2. --- They are still in L2.... So it can all go wrong.
 
Always you have changed your argument, originally you asked why we resort to hoofball now you ask why we persist with it. The game against Wycombe was a prime example of us starting with a passing game and for the first half an hour we were on top. Then as Wycombe got into the game the crowd got edgy, and then a couple of passes started to awry and parts of the crowd started to grown louder. Then every touch is met with anxiety by the crowd and players this created panic and panic turned into hoofball. All because, as I saw it, we didn't get an early goal. I'm not saying you are negative, I was just giving my view as to why we resort to hoofball.

1 last thing. Humble!!! You're having a laugh surely?
 
Whilst i agree that there is no need for panic, and that we really should go on to gain automatic promotion, lets not kid ourselves this is a form issue. It is quite simple. Our away form is superb, and has been all season. At no point has our away form dipped. The problem is that a few of our away games have been called off and therefore we have played more at home than away. At home we have been dreadful since early november. i have only been to one home game this season (Vs bradford on the opening day) . our 2 wins since early november have been a last minute win since morecambe and a rather fortuitous victory against Northampton. From what ive read and seen, i think the only time we've played decently since then was against port vale - and even then we lost. Barnet, wycombe and york all sounded awful. However, like i alluded to earlier, the away form has stayed good. So lets not panic just yet. My biggest gripe with martin allen thus far has been his decision to get rid of Connor Essam. Football is football, you win some , you lose some. However to let go one of our most talented youngsters, for NOTHING is unbelievable. Awful decision by MA and i think it will come back to haunt us in the future. Jack payne - fair enough. Im sure we got decent money and im sure he was keen to go, but like i said the Connor Essam one i just cant get my head around. Its either half glass full or half glass empty. The away form could turn bad in which case we'd be in real trouble, OR we could continue our away form and turn our home form around. The way the leagues going at the moment with everyone taking points off each other i think 80 points will be more than enough for 3rd spot. Therefore we need only 25 more points by my calculations from 17 games. To be quite honest if we dont achieve that then we dont deserve to go up. What also must be remembered is that our superior goal difference is effectively an extra point for us as it is far better than everyone elses excluding Port vale.
 
Geminiswiftgfc - I don't want to get into a heated debate over the interpretation of what I have said - because I believe that you are trying to split hairs regarding exactly what I mean - and I am sure you do understand when I say "Why have we resorted / why do we persist with hoofball. " I think that it's much the same meaning - wether why we originally started with this tactic, or why it is introduced into a game ( as per Wycombe .) Clearly it does not work. Why did we start & why do we persist with hoofball ? Against Wycombe, as you rightly observed,in the first half we did pass the ball. I have to say that nobody in the GRS made any noises regarding any stray passes. I think that most people could see that we created quite a few half chances to score in that period - many more chances than we conjour up when we 'go long' - and in the first half of the season we were scoring from more of those half chances. So why change what was a successful formula ? Wether we started with hoofball, or introduced this into a game or continue to persist with the tactic - it is wrong - we have used the tactic without appreciable success - it must change or we will achieve 8th place ( or lower )
My question really is directed at Martin Allen - and, yes, my opinion in this aspect is not so humble !
 
Always, I think the fans reactions differ to where you sit, the home games I get to these days I sit in the Rainham End and everytime we pass the ball sideways or (heaven forbid) backwards the jeers from certain factions of the support are clearly audible.

As for the tactical side of things I don't believe Allen has sat down and siad "Ok lads, the first half of the season has been excellent with the ball on the floor, but why don't we try the longball game instead?" I feel we start with the ball on the floor, as we did against Wycombe and we create chances (or half chances), as the game progresses we resort to the longball game as we become desperate to score. In the first half of the season we got we got early goals and so could settle more and keep the ball on the floor.
 
Lots of hot air here. Major's point that the away form is superb may be correct. The next two games will tell us but less than 3 points in those two games may be confirmation that MA has accomplished one of the most almighty self destructs of all time. BSG's point about negativity might be right but I think really his point is more valid about the size of the pendulum swings so far as mood is concerned. All is not lost now, but it was equally ridiculous when in early Nov everyone was saying look at the league table when it was blatantly obvious that performances were seriously bad (even though results were still favourable). The last good home performance was against Scunthorpe, when Jackman ran the show after which he was dropped. The rotation system has a lot to answer for.
BSG also poses the question about McDonald and his salary but the answer might not be the one he expects. McDonald may be far too expensive for Gills who will suffer with dressing room morale (a la QPR) if rewards are out of kilter and they will suffer in performance if the players who make the bullets for Cody to fire are sold to meet his wages. There will be no bullets!
The next two games are critical.
 
An excellent thread with very good view points from all. I could probably take a bit from every comment and say 'this'.

Gemini, I am sorry my friend but the argument in to home form this season I have to disagree with. You are judged on your results now and while the away form is good if you took those same stats and that same link and applied it to the last five home games , where do you think we are? Not seventh but 22nd! - Therefore I refer to bristol407's comment about MA might be accomplishing one of the most almighty self destructs of all time.

I want to turn to Danny Jackman for a moment, something I have never mentioned but long thought. Now this is just my own personal opinion, views my own and nothing to support it but does anyone else feel that the red card he picked up earlier in the season was more or less the exit from the door?

One of the biggest things that has upset me though and Major has mentioned it is Connor Essam, Major states he cannot get his head around it, well I will go one better and say it is total MAdness. I accept all the points and previous one's in regards to Jack Payne. However, I do ask if we are going to smash league one, we will be in the Championship in roughly another season and a half, so if Payne has been loyal all this time, why not wait that little bit longer. Well I have my own thoughts on that one, I'd be running for the exit as well from what I have seen going on this season with players departing - not suggesting for one moment that was Payne's motives, just what I would do in his situation.

Don't be fooled with Cody either. I love the guy being back but felt we already had the answers in the squad and the situation remains, Cody is only going to score via two routes, one through his own constant persistent to hassle the opposition defence and keeper, which we have not seen this season from the likes of Keds (on occasions maybe) and Burton OR through some one setting him up, well the latter was pretty much non-existent against Wycombe. Cody is a goal poacher but while Nelson continues to launch the ball aimlessly and in the wake of an absent midfield, he will be hoping for a lot of opposition defence and keeper errors in want of adding to his tally.
 
I have to keep pinching myself. Have we been in the top 2 for most of the season? Yes. So why the constant negativity, brb in particular, you are far more negative about MA this season than the 2 seasons of utter dross under Hessy. At the start of the season the bookies had us mid table under MA 20/1, I had some money on it. So in my book MA has over performed. Lets get things in perspective, the likes of Payne, Jackman etc...where did we actually end up with them in the last two seasons? Outside the play offs/mid table. I think its far to early to start commenting on our recent loan signings, lets wait and see. As for MA's other signings Nelson, Legge, Barratt, Burton all been good in my book.
 
I would sum up the problem so far as being inconsistency, the last two seasons Hess achieved 8th place finishes with a young and inexperienced team which showed he was consistent, the young players learnt a lot and would have improved further this year to protect our long term future.
MA has had a **** load more money, large backroom staff, big crowds, so yes we are 2nd and should all be happy but anyone who has seen us play since November will know we haven't been very good, young players are leaving to be replaced with journey men some of which are over 30 and have long contracts.
When is the right time to start worrying? with our current poor form "March" could see us in the playoffs should we worry then our keep calm until "April" when we drop out of the playoffs.
 
I dont believe it is being purely negative to realise that the loss of form is more than a blip! There has been too many changes to the squad which in imo have left us with a worse squad again imo than when we started the season! Start of the season we were taking teams to the cleaners at home even if we werent playing well! Now every home game i expect us to lose......that is not what you expect of a promotion hunting team, note i said promotion hunting as i feel the title is slipping away or thrown away!! Of course i want us to win every game but i think its just a sense of realism rather than negativity that things are not going well at the moment! Its not just a few games now its 2 or 3 months and i believe that is something to be concerned about! Luckily we HAD pulled so far clear that we have a gap to fall back on, but its slowly being eaten away!
 
grumpygit said:
I would sum up the problem so far as being inconsistency, the last two seasons Hess achieved 8th place finishes with a young and inexperienced team which showed he was consistent, the young players learnt a lot and would have improved further this year to protect our long term future.
MA has had a **** load more money, large backroom staff, big crowds, so yes we are 2nd and should all be happy but anyone who has seen us play since November will know we haven't been very good, young players are leaving to be replaced with journey men some of which are over 30 and have long contracts.
When is the right time to start worrying? with our current poor form "March" could see us in the playoffs should we worry then our keep calm until "April" when we drop out of the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Sorry have to take issue with some of your comments, in what way has MA had shed loads of money? Which major signings has he brought in that's cost us loads of cash?His squad is no larger than what we've had in the last few years. As for the crowds, I think that maybe because we are doing a lot better than the last few seasons!!
 
Everyone would have been happy if we were 2nd at this stage of the season. But because we were top for so long most supporters can only see us slipping further down, which after are start is very worrying. At the moment our away form has kept us 2nd but it is very unlikely to be this impressive till the end of season. If Gills do not win one of the next 2 away games i fill best we can hope for is the play offs.
I am also frustrated that we loaned Payne out. If we sold him it would make more sence as we don't no for sure if Peterborough are definelty buying him and for how much. Surely Payne would have stayed if we did go up and if he did not stay we probably get a bigger transfer fee.
 
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