Too many midfielders

Sorry Hampy, but I've got a few issues with this line of thinking. Firstly, did the financial administration and turmoil that this club went through in the early 2000s fail to alter your expectations at all? In the aftermath of our relegation in 2002, our playing squad and resources were seriously affected and we were forced to sell off our best players. For me, that seriously changed the landscape and expectations for this football club, and it impacted on our chance of securing a quick promotion. Secondly, yes we were a big club in the 70s and 80s (although we didn't have the sustained success that the heavyweights like Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, and Leeds United had over that period). We were viewed as a small town that punched above our weight, were effectively self-sustainable (Sir Bobby only signed 14 players in his 13 years at Ipswich), and won silverware. We are no longer viewed like that. Since 1986 (32 years ago), we have only been in the English top flight for five seasons. A mid-table Championship season doesn't seem so disastrous when viewed in that context.

I'm not trying to be negative or doom and gloom. I am clearly a passionate supporter of this club and success would mean the world to me and this next sentence may be painful reading for some. Unfortunately, this sense of entitlement and immense expectation that I hear from several Ipswich supporters makes me believe that some supporters genuinely, and mistakenly, believe we have got a right to Premier League football. We haven't. We have not been a big-time club in this country for over 30 years.

 

Garners gone to Wigan so we have to rely on 2 strikers from the lower leagues this season, hope it works.

 

Sure it had a short term impact. But winners find a way to win or die trying (Roy Keane) and we just have not had the winning mentality in our fabric and that includes the majority of fans.

You can say what you like about the last 32 years but it wasn't like this in the 90s and 00s. The club became something of a laughing stock under Roy Keane and then the rot really set in during the McCarthy era and thankfully that all seems to be behind us now.

 

Well then we certainly died trying under Roy Keane's tenure. How much money did we blow on average players? I think blaming our stagnation over the past decade on an absence of a 'winning mentality' among supporters and within the club is too simplistic and reductive. I'd point to the financial administration, dismantling of the competitive early-to-mid 00s squad, the poor appointments of Keane and Jewell under Evans, and the owner's recent financial austerity as bigger factors in our recent troubles in that respect. Reduced expectations or supporters not going to games with a 'winning mentality' is a by-product of the above factors, not the leading contributor.

 

Nuggets. Evans austerity and the prolonged tenure of McCarthy is due to a lack of winning mentality. That's why I said it was in our fabric INCLUDING the fans. The fans part has been in acceptance. In the mid-90s we were on the pitch every week and things were nowhere near as bad then as they have been under Evans when Portman Road has for the most part sounded more like a library than a football stadium.

 

When Marcus Evans originally bought the club, he definitely brought a 'winning mentality' by appointing a Championship winning, high-profile manager Roy Keane and giving the man a budget of approximately £10m to spend as he saw fit. Expectations around the club were sky high (Jesus Christ, remember 'Operation Premier League' from the club's marketing department?) We were regularly getting over 20,000 supporters going into games expecting wins and bringing a great atmosphere. Did that winning mentality produce a promotion or even an upturn in performances and league positions? Results and performances were poor, our transfer policy was misguided at best, wasteful at worst, we ultimately regressed and spent the next few years languishing in lower mid-table.

I echo your point that Evans' austerity and the last couple of seasons were poor and ambition around the club has been fairly muted since those Keane / Jewell years, but the atmosphere around the ground has been flat and that's due to apathy, high prices, and a reflection of today's typical football crowds at most English football grounds. Even against Blackburn, the crowd wasn't particularly vocal and we got just shy of 19,000. We are a club that has spent 17 odd years in this division, stagnation has set in and the Hurst 'project' is the latest attempt to arrest this decline by trying something different and having a project in place. If we start winning games regularly and playing attractive football, the crowds will naturally come back and the noise and atmosphere will return with it.

 

Listen, I like Roy Keane. I think we reacted to a run of poor results but we needn't have done. The football under Roy Keane was far better than ever under McCarthy. I remember us competing and being very unlucky against that brilliant Swansea side. People's judgement of that time are clouded by how terrible Paul Jewell's side was. I didn't like Klug moving on, but who's to say that Keane's academy wouldn't have been better with time. McCarthy should have been fired 18 months earlier - when it was clear that we weren't going to improve on our finish from the season before. All the pundits said we overachieved in our play off season and we accepted this. We shouldn't have done. Sometimes all it takes is pumping your chest out.

 

Fair enough, Hampy, and we've debated this before, but just to reiterate that I believe Roy Keane was a shocking appointment who got given more time than necessary and was a big factor in squandering money, talent, and goodwill at this club. The fact that he hasn't got another job in management since being sacked by us, despite his reputation and profile within the game, speaks volumes.

 

You can chart our demise as a once proud Football Club back to Mr David Sheepshanks with his huge ego and hubris! He is the architect of our demise over the past 15 years! He soon cut and run when he saw the wads of cash that Evans was willing to pay him and now he's doing alright Jack! This guy is a charlatan.

 

We couldn't have done a lot worse if we'd given him 6 or 7 years. I say this a lot but I think he would have softened and matured and become a great manager.

 

I couldn't disagree any more with this.

In my time of following Ipswich he is the worst thing to ever happen to this club by a country mile and I include administration in that

 

I'm with Yorkie on this one. Maybe not 6/7 years, but i think if we have Keane another year Or two he could've got us at least in the play offs..but, probably not by building a team, but buying ready made players.
I would've like to have seen him given another season or two.

 

I don't really see how it can be disagreed with, since it was a statement of fact. Do you think he would have become less mature with age and experience? Do you think that getting nowhere in 7 years is better than getting nowhere in 7 years?

 

Forgive me if you’re being wilfully obtuse again, Hampy, but it is not a statement of fact, it is pure speculation and conjecture. You admit so yourself in your original post by saying Keane “could have been a great manager”. There’s no guarantee. Managers do not necessarily get better with age, some just realise they’re not cut out for it. By your logic, should we have given Jim Magilton an extra six or seven years because he “could have” been a better manager? Bearing in mind Magilton was a better Ipswich manager than Keane, but that’s not much of an achievement.

I base my opinion of Roy Keane on what he did at the club. It’s widely acknowledged within our fan base that he was a poor appointment. Keane admits he did a bad job in his own autobiography and even admits to disliking the fact we “played in blue”. Among his many negatives at this club was his responsible for setting our academy back years by driving out Klug. He sanctioned the sale of promising youth players like Jordan Rhodes for pittance, simply to fund his poor transfers. He was responsible for squandering millions of pounds on average players (his only decent signings were Jon Walters, who had previously impressed on loan, Carlos Edwards, and Grant Leadbitter, who cost us almost £3m). Results were poor and we had our worst start to the season in 70 odd years under him. He alienated players and he was responsible for some awful man management. I don’t know what performances you’re remembering, but there was no clear playing style and we were mostly below average with him in charge. Just terrible.

I can understand why people like the man and enjoy his straight-talking, “grumpy man” appearances on ITV, he’s entertaining. But the idea that he was a good manager, or even a promising manager is undermined by his poor record at Ipswich, his own admission that he didn’t do a good job, and the fact he hasn’t been bombarded with managerial offers despite his record in the game. I think he knows he isn’t cut out for management, which is sticking to being an assistant manager.

 

Whilst I’ll grudgingly accept Keane was a decent player I find everything about the man abhorrent and regret that he ever had any association with our Club.

 

It's a statement of fact that he would have matured. It's a statement of fact that we couldn't have done any worse if he had remained in post.

 

No it’s not. We could have got relegated under Keane, which looked far more likely than promotion in his time here. So we could have done worse if he remained in the post. He had to go. He admitted he was a bad manager here and didn’t like the club. He wasted millions. He drove good players away from this club because of his lack of man management skills. He almost ruined the academy and drove Klug away. Nothing in his time here made me think we would have improved, and I’ve seen nothing in the years since which has convinced me that he would make a good manager.

 

Absolute rubbish.

You're forgetting that Paul Jewell took us to the bottom of the Championship and then we've endured 5 years of lousy football. Even if Keane had got us relegated it's hard to imagine anything worse than the last 7 years since he left.

As for players - a couple of duds but as well as the average to decent ones Keane brought in players like Cresswell, Murphy and Hourihane who has also gone on to be a player.

No player of note has come through the academy, although that is largely down to McCarthy's complete ineptitude, so that's another thing that couldn't have been any worse if he had stayed on.

 

I find McCarthy more abhorrent, personally.

 

All these midfielders and Hurst couldn't even name ONE on the bench today. Not happy at all.