Tom Carroll.

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notsosmartspur

notsosmartspur

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
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My house.
Last night was the first time I've had a proper look at him start in a competitive senior match. I think there's much to enthuse about when he has the ball at his feet, good touch, turns his way out of trouble and an eye for a pass. That said, the down side is his physical size, imo he needs to get on the protein shakes and get in the gym on the weights. When we didn't have the ball he wasn't very effective with the closing down, and plenty of you have already pointed out the time and space Lazio had in mf at times. It was always going to difficult for him playing against blokes 5yrs older than him with an extra stone or two of muscle. Not in anyway do I blame him for that, far from it, its just an observation. With careful nurturing I think we might have our own Jack Wilshere here, he reminds of him the way he plays. For all JW's faults, he's a very talented footballer, he also looked skinny when I first saw him and has 'filled out' during his absence from the game, making him very competitive in the few games since his return. I really hope Tom can follow in the same vein.
 
Agree with all of this notso. However, Modric was pretty much a skinny little rat and he coped ok. - more than ok, in fact.

Was it Carroll who made the pass to Bale's "goal" last night? I still don't know the answer to that. it was a beauty, whoever it was.
 
Morning Notso <ok>

I'm a massive fan of Tom Carroll.

Like you say he could definitely do with a protein shake or two. Though, over recent years we've noticed that size isn't as critical to have as it once was. Modric was a prime example of that and there are players all over the world now that don't allow their height & build to affect them in a negative manner, Jack Wilshere (c*nt) is another example.
I did notice as you say that his closing down side of his game is not a strong point, hopefully with a little more work on that and more time with Sandro/ Parker, he can improve his defensive game and learn to use agility and quick reactions to be able to win (or try to win with more conviction) tackles from much larger, phyical opponents. Modric was never afraid to go into a tackle and Lennon too has done more defending at RW than Walker has at RB!

Come on AVB, give the lad some steaks will ya! :D
 
Mornin SoS, I knew someone would use Modric as an example, but if we remember he was a bit of a stick when he joined. I think he did a bit of bulking up to build his strength, which benefitted him as we all saw. Its early days for Tom and he hasn't finished growing fully yet, thats why this is the best time to get him in the gym, people who've weight trained seriously will know what I mean. I'm not suggesting he needs to turn out like Hulk, all he needs is good strength, that with his low centre of gravity is then a match for physically larger opponents.
 
Roo said:
Was it Carroll who made the pass to Bale's "goal" last night? I still don't know the answer to that. it was a beauty, whoever it was.
Click to expand...

It was Carroll, fantastic pass, and well taken goal. Shame about more poor officiating.
 
notsosmartspur said:
Mornin SoS, I knew someone would use Modric as an example, but if we remember he was a bit of a stick when he joined. I think he did a bit of bulking up to build his strength, which benefitted him as we all saw. Its early days for Tom and he hasn't finished growing fully yet, thats why this is the best time to get him in the gym, people who've weight trained seriously will know what I mean. I'm not suggesting he needs to turn out like Hulk, all he needs is good strength, that with his low centre of gravity is then a match for physically larger opponents.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, he's definitely got time on his side to add some meat and fill out. Would be quite amusing if he did bulk up like Hulk though! <laugh>
 
notsosmartspur said:
Last night was the first time I've had a proper look at him start in a competitive senior match. I think there's much to enthuse about when he has the ball at his feet, good touch, turns his way out of trouble and an eye for a pass. That said, the down side is his physical size, imo he needs to get on the protein shakes and get in the gym on the weights. When we didn't have the ball he wasn't very effective with the closing down, and plenty of you have already pointed out the time and space Lazio had in mf at times. It was always going to difficult for him playing against blokes 5yrs older than him with an extra stone or two of muscle. Not in anyway do I blame him for that, far from it, its just an observation. With careful nurturing I think we might have our own Jack Wilshere here, he reminds of him the way he plays. For all JW's faults, he's a very talented footballer, he also looked skinny when I first saw him and has 'filled out' during his absence from the game, making him very competitive in the few games since his return. I really hope Tom can follow in the same vein.
Click to expand...

Wilshere was stocky when he broke into the Arsenal team and that's what helped him settle into the league so quickly. When he went forward he had pace and skill but also the strength on the ball to not get knocked off it easily which helped him look so composed. Carroll's built like a stick insect which is a problem and even when Wilshere was at Bolton he didn't look as lightweight. Oscar's a better comparison for build but he seems to waste no time getting stuck in and I think that will be the case for Carroll if he's going settle in. Perhaps pushing him further forward so any defensive mistakes are lessened would be the answer for him but I think sides like Arsenal aside he'll struggle to cope with the physicality of most midfields in the Premier League. He's a talented lad though and I hope he continues to get chances, it's the only way he'll get better.
 
I agree there are slight players around the World, but they have to be exceptional talents, Iniesta for example, but he's not in the PL, he's in a slower style of play, and despite his size has enough strength to hold off a player.
 
Hi YV, didn't see your post before mine, some good points in there, I didn't think JW was all that stocky, but I'm only going from memory, he's certainly stockier now, which is kind of my point there. Oscar I think has suffered similarly of late. I've read similar criticism of him and the other dinkies Hazard and Mata have been knocked about a bit and not had the same influence as the start of the season. Again it takes a few games for opposition managers to see how to negate players and maybe thats what happened. I feel it happened to us last season. First half of the season all good, the next time we played teams they seemed to have the measure of our threats. Back to Tom, no way am I dissing the lad, just looking at how he can improve. <ok>
 
notsosmartspur said:
Hi YV, didn't see your post before mine, some good points in there, I didn't think JW was all that stocky, but I'm only going from memory, he's certainly stockier now, which is kind of my point there. Oscar I think has suffered similarly of late. I've read similar criticism of him and the other dinkies Hazard and Mata have been knocked about a bit and not had the same influence as the start of the season. Again it takes a few games for opposition managers to see how to negate players and maybe thats what happened. I feel it happened to us last season. First half of the season all good, the next time we played teams they seemed to have the measure of our threats. Back to Tom, no way am I dissing the lad, just looking at how he can improve. <ok>
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I thought your post above was in reply to me at first and I got quite confused :D

Yeah, you raise some good points too. The thing with Oscar was that I was saying that he's just got stuck straight in and I think RDM has to take credit for that, particularly in getting him to man mark creative players like Pirlo. Some lightweight Brazilians have arrived in the PL before and just expected to play their usual game which leaves them struggling to make an impact and letting their team down. Robinho, for example. Trouble with getting Carroll to get stuck into midfields that are a lot stronger and more experienced than him is that he's likely to come off second best more often than not, defensively in particular, which is why I was suggesting it might be better that he played further up the pitch so the effect is lessened.

We'll call it quits on Wilshere's stock. Thinking about it we knocked him about quite a bit when he came to WHL with Bolton but I still stand by what I said about him being quite strong even in the early days at Arsenal :D
 
Carroll will no doubt bulk up a bit, as you say he is still growing but it's not essential. One of the beauties of football is that players of all shapes and size can excel in the game provided they have the skill to do it. A smaller lighter player can use his advantage of speed and balance to out fox a bigger and stronger opponent as Lennon does or Defoe for that matter. Carroll is small, he will always be small but he has got this far so must have the necessary to have done that. He does need more time to cope with the speed and guile of the better players he now finds himself coming up against but he would need that time whatever size he was.
 
A few years ago, young Tom Carroll was written off by many at the club simply because of his size. Some of those who dismissed his chances of making it are no longer with the club and some still are. The only coach who remained adamant we should persevere with him was Clive Allen.

Carroll deserves his chances in our first team because against a lot of background reservations about him, he got his head down and worked so hard to get where he is now. There has been many a young talent pass through our club who maybe could have made it if they had possessed even half of Carroll's application and attitude.

He does need to bulk out, of course he does because I doubt he is going to get any taller. To play and survive at this high level, you have to be a top player. When you are Carroll's size, you have to be a top top player. I am not sure he is that, but he sure as heck has earned his chance.

<ok>.
 
It's very tough to reach the top in football.

Do you know what percentage of young players who actually get to the stage of receiving a contract actually make it to the top tier OS?

It must be a very small percentage!
 
It is a small percentage Spurf and it's a smaller percentage than even a few years ago. This is why so much importance is being attached to Aacdemies these days. Years ago when tehy operated under the title of Centre of Excellence, it was proven that the infrastructure was never really put in place to enhance young talent. Now, with all the top European clubs having professional and accountable accademy structures based in top facilities, the expectations are that genuine skills such as Tom Carroll's will be encouraged and enhanced rather than being written off.
 
I think that Carroll just needs time in the team and training to work on the weaknesses is his game.
I genuinely don't think that size is relevant and I think that the obsession with it in this country has been very damaging to the national side.

Leaving aside the comparative slightness of the likes of Messi or Cannavaro (5'9" centre-back?), look at players like Edgar Davids (5'6") or even the ubiquitous influence of Makelele (5'7").
The ability to read the game and put yourself in the right place is far more important than how tall or well built you are.
Huddlestone would probably be a better player if he wasn't so bloody big! <laugh>
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I think that Carroll just needs time in the team and training to work on the weaknesses is his game.
I genuinely don't think that size is relevant and I think that the obsession with it in this country has been very damaging to the national side.

Leaving aside the comparative slightness of the likes of Messi or Cannavaro (5'9" centre-back?), look at players like Edgar Davids (5'6") or even the ubiquitous influence of Makelele (5'7").
The ability to read the game and put yourself in the right place is far more important than how tall or well built you are.
Huddlestone would probably be a better player if he wasn't so bloody big! <laugh>
Click to expand...

As you would no doubt expect...I disagree! Height is really no issue with me, its strength, and to be a CM in our PL you need a degree of it. The 3 you mention were all strong enough to hold players off, TC atm doesn't have that. I think you can get away with being a lightweight abroad, but not here, its a very physical league, if you're not up to it you will be targeted, the likes of your Stokes and Sam's W.Ham would just roll over him...as Lazio did at times.

Edgar Davids isn't a very good example, he's strong as an ox, like I said before, height is of no real issue to my point here.
 
I saw him play at the Emirates and was impressed with his cameo, looks very calm and composed on the ball for somebody his age. Bright future ahead of him.
 
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