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rangercol said:
It shouldn't be forgotten the absolute shambles that Southgate inherited, with Kane taking corners ffs.
He did a fantastic job in getting the public to fall in love with their team again, whilst steering us to a WC semi-final and Euros final.
I agree that these were opportunities to win a tournament missed, but he still deserves immense credit imo.
This stuff about him inheriting the best group of players isn't necessarily true imo.
The Beckham generation was the best imo, with the WC 1990 side not far behind.
This generation has yet to fulfil its potential imo.

I agree that we probably need a different coach, with fresh ideas to help them achieve their potential.
We definitely haven't seen the best of the likes of Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Sancho, Mount and Grealish at international level imo.
Others like Maddison could figure too.

Southgate will need to go after the WC.
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I thought the 96 team was pretty good
 
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rangercol said:
Presumably that's a 4-2-3-1 if Foden is at 10?
I don't mind that.

I'd prefer 4-3-3:

Pickford
Arnold Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Rice Bellingham
Saka Kane Foden

I agree that it's all about getting the best out of our attacking players and also giving service to Kane, who is a goal scorer.

At least there's zero expectations now.
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Yep 4 2 3 1, but I'd give Bellingham license to get forward and give Foden the freedom to roam but not come deep. I couldn't have Maguire in my team pal, he's just too bad with no pace at all. Also Shaw isn't getting any club time and I'd rather have Trippier in there for set pieces and corners aswell as Trent. I couldn't be playing Mount either especially as a wide player, Grealish takes players on and wins so many free kicks with a decent ref in charge, set pieces will be vital and with Trippier and Trent in there I'd be expecting good delivery !
 
Didley Squat said:
From someone on the outside looking in, this is my take on it.

England currently have a extremely talented team worthy of many things.
How far they advance in the World Cup depends only on the manager.
For me, a great team will be only as good as the manager whose real job is to man manage each player.
He can bring out their talent or hold it back.
A great manager will advance an otherwise ordinary team.

If England have a problem, it won't be the players.
Just my two bobs worth.
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Don't agree fully with that, we should've won 1 or maybe both of the last 2 major tournaments with the exact same manager. We got to a Semi and final because we didn't have to play any top teams ! The ones we met in the last World Cup we lost to. Belgium and Croatia but still got to the Semi's. We should've beaten Italy in the Euros but Southgate waited too long to change anything just like against Croatia. It does prove that even with a mediocre manager if you avoid all the big teams you can still go deep. We have another lovely draw but it remains to be seen if we take advantage. I think we could meet France in the quarters if things pan out, now that would be a serious test.
 
sb_73 said:
I think we miss natural leaders on the pitch. All those players you listed are very good but none of them are real leaders, kids with real potential. Kane is the nearest we have to it I suppose but you need some bigger characters in other positions. Maguire was one but he has so many issues now. Henderson surely had his day at international level.

Mind you even when we had leaders all over the place - Gerrard, Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard, Rooney - we were ****.

Southgate was great when the expectations were zero and we played with freedom, but all the old crippling anxieties are back now, with a high chance of ruining some of these players at international level at least. Time for a change but I have no idea who would replace him, at least in terms of English managers.

Italy have collapsed since the Euros, going very much in the same direction as England, except their players aren’t as good. Mancini had them playing good football briefly, but they have reverted to the old ways. Arrigo Sacchi, who just about invented the high press, said that Mark Hughes (of all people) once told him that if the pitch was 2km long, the Italians would play in the first 20 metres. Sacchi agreed, he reckons no matter how much you try and do something different like he did with the great Milan side, they have this mindset in their DNA. He also reckons that there is little managerial talent in Italy at the moment.
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For what it's worth I'd make Rice captain, he rarely gets injured , is guaranteed to be I'm most starting 11's and seems to have the drive in him to push others around . Won't happen but should imo
 
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rangercol said:
I don't know who could replace Southgate either.
The past England players you mention have admitted that club rivalry had prevented them from fulfilling their potential for their country. Something I can neither understand nor forgive.
Southgate, to his credit, oversaw a change in that way of thinking.

I also agree about a lack of leaders. Saka and Foden look like boys against men at times for England.
Rice and Kane are probably the only ones unless Maguire can regain his self belief. He actually played well last night.
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We should've appointed Potter long before the Scum snapped him up, would take monumental compensation to tempt him away now. Another chance missed imo
 
Hammersmith bookie said:
Yep 4 2 3 1, but I'd give Bellingham license to get forward and give Foden the freedom to roam but not come deep. I couldn't have Maguire in my team pal, he's just too bad with no pace at all. Also Shaw isn't getting any club time and I'd rather have Trippier in there for set pieces and corners aswell as Trent. I couldn't be playing Mount either especially as a wide player, Grealish takes players on and wins so many free kicks with a decent ref in charge, set pieces will be vital and with Trippier and Trent in there I'd be expecting good delivery !
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Mount wouldn't be a wide player. Him and Bellingham would be No8s ahead of Rice.
 
rangercol said:
Mount wouldn't be a wide player. Him and Bellingham would be No8s ahead of Rice.
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Fair enough, but in my eyes Mount's best position is as a number 10 and I couldn't have him ahead of Foden. Just feel with Grealish and Saka as wide men they'd get more crosses into the box and take on more players. We do seem to lack width and I'd want them staying out wide to occupy the oppositions full backs, with Arnold and Trippier overlapping them. Both Stones and White have played at right back this season too so could give cover for Arnold when he goes forward, something Southgate has never really given him when he's played.
 
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Lyndon rewarded for his brace during the week with a starting place in the line-up tonight v Ireland....a win or draw tonight takes them back to the top of the group with all to play for v Ukraine in a few days...and possible promotion to the A leagues....that's gonna cause some piss-taking at work with England getting relegated!
 
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Steelmonkey said:
Lyndon rewarded for his brace during the week with a starting place in the line-up tonight v Ireland....a win or draw tonight takes them back to the top of the group with all to play for v Ukraine in a few days...and possible promotion to the A leagues....that's gonna cause some piss-taking at work with England getting relegated!
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Just ask the jocks how they think they're gonna do in the Workd Cup ? That'll put em back in their boxes for a bit
 
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Hammersmith bookie said:
Just ask the jocks how they think they're gonna do in the Workd Cup ? That'll put em back in their boxes for a bit
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Play like we have been, and I'd rather we weren't there - could be the laughing stock of the competition.

Scotland losing to a very QPR goal to concede....Lyndon does well to clear from a corner, but no-one closes down the second ball and Egan squirts the ball through a few bodies into the bottom corner
 
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Good comeback from Scotland, playing Ireland off the park in the second half and taking a 2-1 lead (no Dykes goals this time - subbed in 85th minute)
 
Steelmonkey said:
Play like we have been, and I'd rather we weren't there - could be the laughing stock of the competition.

Scotland losing to a very QPR goal to concede....Lyndon does well to clear from a corner, but no-one closes down the second ball and Egan squirts the ball through a few bodies into the bottom corner
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I'd love Southgate to play whoever he picks in their natural positions and do a Beale and tell them to go out there and play with the handbrake off. Unshackle them Gareth and players like Foden and Grealish might flourish !
 
Just had a look at the tables. Depending on Wales' result tonight, could well end up with Wales and Scotland in an A league, and England in a B league. Considering this puts us out of the top 16 teams in Europe. Really not good enough. Ironic talking about Euro 96, which was a great tournament for England, but there were only 16 teams in that tournament, we might not have even qualified!*

*aside from being the host nation.
 
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