Time to WAKE UP Gooners

[goonercymraeg]

You know what - good post ... but this is about expectations - yours might be lower because we've been worse than now in the past, but what happened two and half decades ago should not define our expectations now. The current 8 year run without the league title is the worst since we claimed the title in 1988-9.

I think you should do some research and post again

 

[Jayram_Football]

Exactly! The whole point is that apart from Jamrag, I don't ever recall seeing anyone say otherwise. AFC have enjoyed a degree of success since he has managed us. Even when winning the title he never won the CL. Does this mean those wins weren't successes? No it doesn't. That is why Jamrag is a kunt. Fact!

Another poorly constructed argument.

My view is that success is winning trophies. By that measure we have failed in my view. You yourself said that we are underachieving. Quite how you reconcile that with success I do not know.

 

[Jayram_Football]

I think you should do some research and post again

After going without the title for 18 years we won it in 1988-9. Since that time, the current run without a title is the worst If you want to set your expectation around what happened between 41 and 23 years ago that is up to you.

1988–89 Arsenal (9)
1989–90 Liverpool (18)
1990–91 Arsenal (10)
1991–92 Leeds United (3)
1992–93 Manchester United (8)
1993–94 Manchester United (9)
1994–95 Blackburn Rovers (3)
1995–96 Manchester United (10)
1996–97 Manchester United (11)
1997–98 Arsenal (11)
1998–99 Manchester United[7] (12)
1999–00 Manchester United (13)
2000–01 Manchester United (14)
2001–02 Arsenal (12)
2002–03 Manchester United (15)
2003–04 Arsenal[1] (13)
2004–05 Chelsea[4] (2)
2005–06 Chelsea (3)
2006–07 Manchester United (16)
2007–08 Manchester United (17)
2008–09 Manchester United[4] (18)
2009–10 Chelsea (4)
2010–11 Manchester United (19)
2011–12 Manchester City (3)

 

[goonercymraeg]

After going without the title for 18 years we won it in 1988-9. Since that time, the current run without a title is the worst If you want to set your expectation around what happened between 41 and 23 years ago that is up to you.

1988–89 Arsenal (9)
1989–90 Liverpool (18)
1990–91 Arsenal (10)
1991–92 Leeds United (3)
1992–93 Manchester United (8)
1993–94 Manchester United (9)
1994–95 Blackburn Rovers (3)
1995–96 Manchester United (10)
1996–97 Manchester United (11)
1997–98 Arsenal (11)
1998–99 Manchester United[7] (12)
1999–00 Manchester United (13)
2000–01 Manchester United (14)
2001–02 Arsenal (12)
2002–03 Manchester United (15)
2003–04 Arsenal[1] (13)
2004–05 Chelsea[4] (2)
2005–06 Chelsea (3)
2006–07 Manchester United (16)
2007–08 Manchester United (17)
2008–09 Manchester United[4] (18)
2009–10 Chelsea (4)
2010–11 Manchester United (19)
2011–12 Manchester City (3)

I wasn't talking about winning the title.
Surely someone your age must remember the bad times like me

 

[PINKIE]

I am not saying we can complete for the same players as City go for - but that has nothing to do with competing for the league, which we should be. This is why your money arguments are indeed the arguments of an apologist.

Sorry Piskie - but you did indeed claim that you knew more than George Graham. It was a desperate statement in the middle of an argument you had badly lost. You said he didnt know anything about football and did not concede that you were in the same boat.

No you are wrong on both points - again.

You said that the resources argument is an excuse. It's not, it's a very real factor in our ability to compete with the big spenders. If you think money doesn't have an impact on winning the title, then you are deluding yourself. Need proof? where were Chelsea and City before their billionaire owners came in? They were mid table teams.

Regarding George Graham, I said that GG didn't know what he was talking about saying that we should sell Walcott and I stand by that. I think he's wrong. But again, I have never said that I know more than George Graham - you're making that up, prove me wrong by showing me the quote where I did. You can't because I didn't say it.

Like I said, if you had some integrity people might take you seriously. But when you fabricate events to try and suit your argument, that's where you lose all respect.

 

[Jayram_Football]

I wasn't talking about winning the title.
Surely someone your age must remember the bad times like me

erm, but i was. You can shift the discussion anywhere you want, but my posts stands. If you want to set your expectation based on our level two and half decades ago then go ahead. I dont.

 

[goonercymraeg]

erm, but i was. You can shift the discussion anywhere you want, but my posts stands. If you want to set your expectation based on our level two and half decades ago then go ahead. I dont.

I don't remember us losing a cup final to a 3rd division club or the Spuds and Stretford getting relegated two and a half decades ago

 

[PINKIE]

By your logic Jayram, qualifiying for the Champions League makes us unsuccessful.

 

[Jayram_Football]

No you are wrong on both points - again.

You said that the resources argument is an excuse. It's not, it's a very real factor in our ability to compete with the big spenders. If you think money doesn't have an impact on winning the title, then you are deluding yourself. Need proof? where were Chelsea and City before their billionaire owners came in? They were mid table teams.

Regarding George Graham, I said that GG didn't know what he was talking about saying that we should sell Walcott and I stand by that. I think he's wrong. But again, I have never said that I know more than George Graham - you're making that up, prove me wrong by showing me the quote where I did. You can't because I didn't say it.

Like I said, if you had some integrity people might take you seriously. But when you fabricate events to try and suit your argument, that's where you lose all respect.

It most certainly is an excuse. No one has ever said that money is not important, but it does not stop clubs from competing for the title. Dortmund are a classic example, as were we when we beat Utd 3 times with half the income. Its easy to latch on and apologise for Wenger for not winning because City have money, but it doesnt hold any water.

You can deflect what you said about Graham all you want, but you positioned it in exactly the way i described. The language you used was clear. To jog your memory, you were claiming some kind of victory because Arteta had posted we were 'not far off'. When something from Graham was posted saying we were in crisis, which also had a reference to Walcott being sold, you claimed he did not know anything about football because of his views on Walcott, and tried to discredit his claim of us being in crisis for that reason. Everyone who was invloved in that thread will remember it clearly.

 

[Jayram_Football]

By your logic Jayram, qualifiying for the Champions League makes us unsuccessful.

Sorry, but what a completely stupid comment, that just highlights the very thing you have been accusing me of - a lack of integrity.

 

[PINKIE]

Show me the quote where I said I know more than GG then ? You can't because you're making it up. Prove me wrong or admit you're talking bollocks

 

[PINKIE]

Sorry, but what a completely stupid comment, that just highlights the very thing you have been accusing me of - a lack of integrity.

So you would admit that qualifying for the Champions League does make us successful then ? Which is it ?

 

[Jayram_Football]

I don't remember us losing a cup final to a 3rd division club or the Spuds and Stretford getting relegated two and a half decades ago

I know you're ill, so will assume you are just able to discuss properly at this point.

My point is simple - we are on the longest run without winning the league since 1988.

 

[MrWright!]

------------szneznky
Sagna--Koshielny--Vermalean--Clichy
------Song----Flamani
OXO----Fabregas-----Nasri
---------RVP

Subs : Adebayor, Gervinho, Walcott,

 

[Jayram_Football]

So you would admit that qualifying for the Champions League does make us successful then ? Which is it ?

Not winning trophies and going backwards makes us unsuccessful.

So yes, qualifying us for the CL is not the criteria that makes us unsuccessful.

What a stupid set of logic you have for even going down this route Chief Apologist.

Here's one for you.

Not getting relegated also does not make us unsuccessful - just as stupid of course but in line with your approach.

 

[PINKIE]

Not winning trophies and going backwards makes us unsuccessful.

So yes, qualifying us for the CL is not the criteria that makes us unsuccessful.

What a stupid set of logic you have for even going down this route Chief Apologist.

Here's one for you.

Not getting relegated also does not make us unsuccessful - just as stupid of course but in line with your approach.

Just try answering the question instead of trying to distract the argument with your nonsense.

Is qualifying for the champions league a success ?

 

[Jayram_Football]

Just try answering the question instead of trying to distract the argument with your nonsense.

Is qualifying for the champions league a success ?

Your question is a stupid one, but I will elaborate for you.

Qualifying for the CL is NOT success for Arsenal
Qualifying for the CL IS success for Newcastle

So, now you have tried to completely polarise the argument (something you accused me of ) around CL qualification vs not for all teams, I hope this simple example demonstrates just how stupid your question was

 

[PINKIE]

Qualifying for the CL is NOT success for Arsenal

Really?

By your logic it would have made no difference if we'd finished below the spuds and missed out on CL football.

Personally, I would say that qualifying for the CL is definitely a success compared to missing out on it.

 

[Jayram_Football]

Really?

By your logic it would have made no difference if we'd finished below the spuds and missed out on CL football.

Personally, I would say that qualifying for the CL is definitely a success compared to missing out on it.

I agree with the bold part of you post above. Note the new words compared to missing out on it. I am gald you added them because you were beginning to sound completely non sensical.

Another example - finishing 17th would be a success for us compared to getting relegated.

In terms of my logic - nowhere have i said that finsihing in 3rd made no difference compared to being below Spurs and missing out. Thats just you being disingenuous, one the reasons you are not taken seriously

 

[Arsenal87]

Just try answering the question instead of trying to distract the argument with your nonsense.

Is qualifying for the champions league a success ?

So is that all you have? That's all you can tout? While other teams are winning leagues, winning the UCL, all you can bring up is oh well our success is winning qualification for Europe. And no, it isn't a success in comparison of failing to win trophies for 7 consecutive seasons, it is not a success in comparison to our rivals winning trophies. Incase you forgot, qualification for the UCL has always been the bare minimum of our season, the fact that baboons like you are now over the moon by achieving the bare minimum of the season and touting it as a major success shows how pathetic you are, and once again demonstrates why mediocrity is excused at this club, because of fans like you who accept it. YAYYYY WE HAVE THIRD PLACE, AMAZING ARSENAL, YEAHHHHHH, WE QUALIFIED FOR EUROPE, YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH, SUCH A MAJOR SUCCESS, BEST IN THE WORLD.